17 years in prison for an idiot who shot drunk woman.

[LogGrad98]

Despite a surge in gun-related offenses in the early 2000s, the past seven years in the U.K. have seen successive drops in gun crimes — a consequence, some argue, of the country’s tougher laws on gun ownership.

So which article is lying???

Nope, it is who is controlling the spin.


And 48.73% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Well, no guns in schools is a dismal failure.

Compared to what counterfactual?

So the solution is to arm teachers and administrators?

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Nope, it is who is controlling the spin.


And 48.73% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I call BS. It's actually 62.29% of statistics that are made up.

 

[LogGrad98]

Compared to what counterfactual?

So the solution is to arm teachers and administrators?

If every teacher and administrator carried an AK-47 it would be difficult for a guy with an AR-15 to do much damage. Even this AR-15 which is epic!

 

[LogGrad98]

I call BS. It's actually 62.29% of statistics that are made up.

See we are back to who is doing the spinning.

Ka is a wheel. Or a parrot. I forget.

 

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

I'm wrong. Apparently fork-related eating increases if you remove forks from your kitchen. Who knew?

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year[2009] - a rise of 89 per cent.

Read more: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html#ixzz3CNt5DUke

Looks like per capita decrease. More proof gun free society is more safer.

 

[♪alt13]

I looked up the homicide rate for 100+ years for England and Wales. I compared numbers from before the handgun ban to those after. I used 10 years before and after because: 1) 10 is a nice objective number 2) As you expand your sample size you are also comparing years that are further apart. So you are less and less confident that what you are seeing is at least partially an effect of gun control and not a changing society 3) the ban was in 1997 so the max I could have used was 14 given the data in front of me.

Here are the annual homicide rates for England and Wales per million for 14 years before and after with 1997 in bold.(14years/1997/14 years)

9.7 10.8 10.7 11.2 11.9 10.9 10.3 10.9 12.3 11.4 11.1 12.4 13.0 11.4 (1983-1996)

11.8 Year of the Hand gun Ban

11.6 12.2 12.7 14.4 15.2 17.9 14.6 14.7 13.3 13.3 13.6 11.8 11.1 11.5 (1998-2011)

source UK gov(page 38): https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/116483/hosb0212.pdf


There is nothing here to link the the UK's hand gun ban in any way to a decrease in total homicide rates. If we were to draw a correlation it would suggest that the law has caused an increase in the homicide rate. I won't go that far. The UKs homicide rate has hovered around 1 per 100k going back to 1900.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rate_by_decade


If you want me to point out the statistically stronger correlation between gun control and an increase in burglary, rape, and assault I will. I'd rather you just looked it up for yourself, tbh.

 

[franklin]

I looked up the homicide rate for 100+ years for England and Wales. I compared numbers from before the handgun ban to those after. I used 10 years before and after because: 1) 10 is a nice objective number 2) As you expand your sample size you are also comparing years that are further apart. So you are less and less confident that what you are seeing is at least partially an effect of gun control and not a changing society 3) the ban was in 1997 so the max I could have used was 14 given the data in front of me.

Here are the annual homicide rates for England and Wales per million for 14 years before and after with 1997 in bold.(14years/1997/14 years)

9.7 10.8 10.7 11.2 11.9 10.9 10.3 10.9 12.3 11.4 11.1 12.4 13.0 11.4 (1983-1996)

11.8 Year of the Hand gun Ban

11.6 12.2 12.7 14.4 15.2 17.9 14.6 14.7 13.3 13.3 13.6 11.8 11.1 11.5 (1998-2011)

source UK gov(page 38): https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/116483/hosb0212.pdf


There is nothing here to link the the UK's hand gun ban in any way to a decrease in total homicide rates. If we were to draw a correlation it would suggest that the law has caused an increase in the homicide rate. I won't go that far. The UKs homicide rate has hovered around 1 per 100k going back to 1900.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rate_by_decade


If you want me to point out the statistically stronger correlation between gun control and an increase in burglary, rape, and assault I will. I'd rather you just looked it up for yourself, tbh.

Solid post and this kind of thing seems to convince, but it's pointless. You either believe good people will do good an bad people bad or you're a fool. The issue is never about guns, the issues are never about anything proffered. It always comes down to character. Yet we never truly address the root causes.

 

[MVP]

I looked up the homicide rate for 100+ years for England and Wales. I compared numbers from before the handgun ban to those after. I used 10 years before and after because: 1) 10 is a nice objective number 2) As you expand your sample size you are also comparing years that are further apart. So you are less and less confident that what you are seeing is at least partially an effect of gun control and not a changing society 3) the ban was in 1997 so the max I could have used was 14 given the data in front of me.

Here are the annual homicide rates for England and Wales per million for 14 years before and after with 1997 in bold.(14years/1997/14 years)

9.7 10.8 10.7 11.2 11.9 10.9 10.3 10.9 12.3 11.4 11.1 12.4 13.0 11.4 (1983-1996)

11.8 Year of the Hand gun Ban

11.6 12.2 12.7 14.4 15.2 17.9 14.6 14.7 13.3 13.3 13.6 11.8 11.1 11.5 (1998-2011)

source UK gov(page 38): https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/116483/hosb0212.pdf


There is nothing here to link the the UK's hand gun ban in any way to a decrease in total homicide rates. If we were to draw a correlation it would suggest that the law has caused an increase in the homicide rate. I won't go that far. The UKs homicide rate has hovered around 1 per 100k going back to 1900.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rate_by_decade
If you want me to point out the statistically stronger correlation between gun control and an increase in burglary, rape, and assault I will. I'd rather you just looked it up for yourself, tbh.

Are you looking at all homicides or gun related homicides? Data from UK seems to be confusing as some articles are claiming one and other other. But in Australia I think all of them agree that gun control worked.

 

[Jaymz]

People do stupid things,
Stupid people with guns, do "stupider" things. pun intended on grammar.
I'm sure if someone was intending to kill, they wouldn't let a gun be the only option. It's just the easiest.

Of course if guns were taken away, there would probably be more school bombings instead. People will figure out a way to do damage if that's what they want to do. The best way to sort out a lot of the mess is to start early in age and teach them why it's not right to kill people over any reason. Why our intentions have an effect on us, those around us, and our world.

I do believe however, that maybe there are certain situations where a gun happens to be close by, and people do get scared and we are ment to believe that guns are for protection and a 1st option.

 

[Jaymz]

Teach our future generations how to think, not what to think.

 

[PearlWatson]

But in Australia I think all of them agree that gun control worked.

Here is just two little blurbs to challenge this assertion, and I threw the Canada one in just for fun:

Dr. Adam Graycar, director of the Australian Institute of
Criminology, admitted in an
interview with the Associated Press [2000]that assaults in his country
had indeed climbed since 1998

Australia only issued a ban on certain types of guns and started a buyback program for the banned guns, so this was the consequence of that:

Mr O'Connor received $3,950 compensation for three banned firearms - which he topped up to buy
three under-and-over shotguns for $7,000.
Gun sales soar - Herald Sun - Melbourne - 13/12/96

National Center for Policy Analysis: “After Canada passed a gun control law in 1977, the murder
rate failed to decline, but armed robbery and burglary, crimes
frequently deterred by gun ownership, increased.”

 

[♪alt13]

Are you looking at all homicides or gun related homicides? Data from UK seems to be confusing as some articles are claiming one and other other. But in Australia I think all of them agree that gun control worked.

All homicides that's what matters if you want to make a meaningful argument on those grounds. You might bring up Australia and I might counter with Russia. All of this being largely meaningless because it doesn't represent the US.

Us homicide rate

and since you are obsessed with one particular kind of weapon

The rate of non-fatal violent gun crime victimization dropped 75% in the past 20 years; The gun homicide rate dropped 49% in the same period, according to numbers Pew researchers obtained from the Bureau of Justice Statistics and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/07/gun-crime-drops-but-americans-think-its-worse/2139421/

possible explanations

Some ardent NRA and other gun owners say the decline has occurred because so many Americans have chosen to arm themselves and have, therefore, created safer streets and homesteads. Anti-gun proponents point to the increase in the number of gun laws as being the reason violent crimes are on the downswing. There are no firm statistics to back up either theory.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-dimond/crime-reduction_b_2878003.html


Like I said it wouldn't change my mind even if the statistics showed a strong correlation between gun control and public safety. They don't so... frosting.

 

[MVP]

and I threw the Canada one in just for fun:

From Wikipedia.
A January 2011 study by the Université de Montréal came to the opposite conclusion, finding that Canadian gun control legislation since 1974 resulted in a 5-10 percent drop in firearm homicides.
From 1977 to 2003 Canada firearm homicide has declined from 1.15 to 0.5 per 100,000, while other mechanisms declined less significantly (1.85 to 1.23 per 100,000)

 

[DutchJazzer]

Yup, you guys need more guns for sure.

want to hear something outragous?
Switzerland Sweden and Finland are in top 10 in the world in guns per capita.


so maybe it is not the guns.

for example USA has 90 guns per capita, Switzerland and finland have half that(45 for you mathematically challenged dudes)
Sweden and Norway have a 3rd of that.

so font ****ing blame it on guns.


you know what come to think of it America has more African Americans(or whatever pc word they are called these days) then those other countries.
so by your logic we should ban African Americans


OMG that graph is SO STUPID



edit: my comment on african americans is partly based in reality. seeming as most of gun violence is done by them

 

[DutchJazzer]

People do stupid things,
Stupid people with guns, do "stupider" things. pun intended on grammar.
I'm sure if someone was intending to Murder, they wouldn't let a gun be the only option. It's just the easiest.

Of course if guns were taken away, there would probably be more school bombings instead. People will figure out a way to do damage if that's what they want to do. The best way to sort out a lot of the mess is to start early in age and teach them why it's not right to Murder living beings over any reason. Why our intentions have an effect on us, those around us, and our world.

I do believe however, that maybe there are certain situations where a gun happens to be close by, and people do get scared and we are ment to believe that guns are for protection and a 1st option.

fixed

 

[PearlWatson]

From Wikipedia.
A January 2011 study by the Université de Montréal came to the opposite conclusion, finding that Canadian gun control legislation since 1974 resulted in a 5-10 percent drop in firearm homicides.
From 1977 to 2003 Canada firearm homicide has declined from 1.15 to 0.5 per 100,000, while other mechanisms declined less significantly (1.85 to 1.23 per 100,000)

There you go again. You might be focusing on forks while the blurb is talking about all eating utensils.

Also if I ban forks why is there only a 10% decrease in fork eating. Shouldn't that be closer to 100%?

Your fork ban compliance must suck. The fat kids might just be hiding sporks under their beds.

Are you going to address the increase in robbery and burglary?

 

[MVP]

Also if I ban forks why is there only a 10% decrease in fork eating. Shouldn't that be closer to 100%?

It is not 100% ban like in Japan. It is licensing/permit system and ban of some particular types of guns. You can legally own gun for hunting or self defense in Canada without problem. Plus according to data 2/3 of illegal guns used in crimes in Canada are smuggled from USA. So your lose gun laws are making not only yours but as well our situation worse.

 

[MVP]

want to hear something outragous?
Switzerland Sweden and Finland are in top 10 in the world in guns per capita.


so maybe it is not the guns.

for example USA has 90 guns per capita, Switzerland and finland have half that(45 for you mathematically challenged dudes)
Sweden and Norway have a 3rd of that.

Check what kind of guns those folks have. Sweden Finland, Norway, Iceland - 90% of their guns are for hunting only. Average Nils or Johan in Scandinavian countries does not have handgun at home for self defense. Lol, they don't even have locks in their doors in most rural areas.

 

[MVP]

Are you going to address the increase in robbery and burglary?

That is direct result of uncontrolled and forced multiculturalism more than gun control laws. Stupid Asian gangs in Vancouver and Toronto are to blame. See what is happening in Sweden or Norway and how much their robbery, burglary or rape % increased due to immigration from African and Middle Asian countries.