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2 dozen killed in Afghanistan

The Thriller

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
https://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/08/06/afghanistan.nato.helicopter.crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Wow this sucks... When the hell can we get out of this nation building nonsense and build up our own dysfunctional and failing nation? Personally, I think Afghanistan and Iraq should be rebuilding our economy and infrastructure.

Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Most of those killed when a Chinook helicopter crashed in eastern Afghanistan overnight were U.S. Navy SEALs, two U.S. government officials said.

"It's a big loss" for the SEALs," one of the officials said. The numbers are high."

"It is believed that about two dozen Special Operations Forces, including some from other services, were on board the aircraft, in addition to the Army crew flying the craft."

Afghan President Hamid Karzai issued a statement saying as many as 31 U.S. special forces and seven Afghans were killed.

If the numbers are confirmed, the incident would be the most deadly for coalition forces in the Afghan war, according to a CNN count of international troop deaths.
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I have read reports that most of the seal team that killed OBL were on this helicopter and were killed. Now we don't have a body, no good photographic evidence, and the eyewitnesses are gone. American coverup?
 
I read that none of the members of the unit involved in the raid on OBL were on that chopper.
 
My cousin is a Major in the Army. He came home early from a tour in Afghanistan when his wife was diagnosed with Breast Cancer. He hasn't lived here in Utah since he was a young kid but stopped by on his way from Colorado to Washington for his latest transfer. We had a family get together when they were in town and we were talking about the war in Afghanistan. It's his opinion that "we can't win this one". He says the entire country is nothing more than a bunch of tribes who have fought each other for thousands of years. What makes us think we can go in there and suddenly convince them to stop? He also mentioned that it costs the US something like a million dollars for every gallon of fuel used over there by the time it's bought, shipped, and consumed. And that's only for the fuel that actually gets to the soldiers. He says a huge amount never makes it because it's stolen by the Afghans who are processing it. He may have said it was like 40% that gets "diverted" (I can't remember the actual numbers he used). But I believe him when he says it, his job was the XO for the logistics and supplies for the battalion.

Not really on topic, but I thought I'd share.
 
RIP to all those who lost their lives.

What a huge loss at one time. I hope all of our time, money, and blood will amount to something 10 years down the line. After we leave, how on earth are things going to not just swing
back to the way they were 10 years ago.
 
catratcho said:
My cousin is a Major in the Army. He came home early from a tour in Afghanistan when his wife was diagnosed with Breast Cancer. He hasn't lived here in Utah since he was a young kid but stopped by on his way from Colorado to Washington for his latest transfer. We had a family get together when they were in town and we were talking about the war in Afghanistan. It's his opinion that "we can't win this one". He says the entire country is nothing more than a bunch of tribes who have fought each other for thousands of years. What makes us think we can go in there and suddenly convince them to stop? He also mentioned that it costs the US something like a million dollars for every gallon of fuel used over there by the time it's bought, shipped, and consumed. And that's only for the fuel that actually gets to the soldiers. He says a huge amount never makes it because it's stolen by the Afghans who are processing it. He may have said it was like 40% that gets "diverted" (I can't remember the actual numbers he used). But I believe him when he says it, his job was the XO for the logistics and supplies for the battalion.

Not really on topic, but I thought I'd share.
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His opinion, has significant historic backing.

Just ask the Russians how Afghanistan treated them...

It still amazes me that we allow our government to intertwine our blood and treasury with these no-win situations like Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. When will we learn that nation building just doesn't work?
 
The Thriller said:
His opinion, has significant historic backing.

Just ask the Russians how Afghanistan treated them...

It still amazes me that we allow our government to intertwine our blood and treasury with these no-win situations like Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. When will we learn that nation building just doesn't work?
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I think it's likely that the revolutions in Egypt and Libya were partly due to the "nation building" efforts in the middle east. I would say the effects of these wars aren't immediate, but there have been some positive chain reactions.

Granted, that speculation isn't exactly enough to warrant 10,000 + deaths... and an economy in shambles.
 
The-Joker said:
I think it's likely that the revolutions in Egypt and Libya were partly due to the "nation building" efforts in the middle east. I would say the effects of these wars aren't immediate, but there have been some positive chain reactions.

Granted, that speculation isn't exactly enough to warrant 10,000 + deaths... and an economy in shambles.
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I don't know much about Egypt other than people are ticked off about their economy. In fact, that's been about the only reason that I've heard that they're having a revolution.
Libya? I have no clue. But weren't there reports that Al-Queda was helping out the revolution?

Anyway, even if we did have somewhat of an influence on those revolutions, I don't think it's worth it. Our country is in the crapper more than ever.
Besides, those other revolutions are far from being better than the previous governments in place. In fact, the disease can often times be worse than the cure. Under Saddam, fewer people were killed, and more had jobs. Under US/Iraqi rule? More people dead, worse economy, and people going without basic needs.
 
The Thriller said:
I don't know much about Egypt other than people are ticked off about their economy. In fact, that's been about the only reason that I've heard that they're having a revolution.
Libya? I have no clue. But weren't there reports that Al-Queda was helping out the revolution?

Anyway, even if we did have somewhat of an influence on those revolutions, I don't think it's worth it. Our country is in the crapper more than ever.
Besides, those other revolutions are far from being better than the previous governments in place. In fact, the disease can often times be worse than the cure. Under Saddam, fewer people were killed, and more had jobs. Under US/Iraqi rule? More people dead, worse economy, and people going without basic needs.
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Wow, just wow!

https://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html
Saddam Hussein
Last modified 11 June 2011.
First published 12 August 2001. Reviewed 28 October 2010

SADDAM HUSSEIN

Full name Saddam Hussein al-Majid al-Tikriti. AKA 'Great Uncle', AKA 'Lion of Babylon', AKA 'Lion of Iraq', AKA 'Beast of Baghdad'. Saddam translates to 'One Who Confronts'.

Country: Iraq.

Kill tally: Approaching two million, including between 150,000 and 340,000 Iraqi and between 450,000 and 730,000 Iranian combatants killed during the Iran-Iraq War. An estimated 1,000 Kuwaiti nationals killed following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. No conclusive figures for the number of Iraqis killed during the Gulf War, with estimates varying from as few as 1,500 to as many as 200,000. Over 100,000 Kurds killed or "disappeared". No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Saddam's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000. (Mass graves discovered following the US occupation of Iraq in 2003 suggest that the total combined figure for Kurds, Shias and dissidents killed could be as high as 300,000). Approximately 500,000 Iraqi children dead because of international trade sanctions introduced following the Gulf War.
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So as long as people have jobs and order is maintained by a ruthless mass-murdering dictator there's really nothing to be concerned about?

I better understand you political views. Thank you.
 
Good post GF. This was debated a lot in another thread a while ago too. Depending on the estimates, Saddam is anywhere from 6th to 4th (behind Mao, Stalin, and Hitler) on the list of most deadly dicatators in history. Many people chose to gloss that over as they didn't approve of the war. Kind of shocking. In a different thread it was argued that we are right in taking down Qadaffi, but that we should have left Saddam alone. The logic escapes me. Qadaffi is not even a 10th of the monster Saddam was. Obviously opinions colored purely by politics and not by any real logic.

To me the biggest issue is how Saddam was taken out, and how long it has taken to turn things back over to the Iraqis, not the fact that he was ousted to begin with.
 
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