2011 draft.....

[NUMBERICA]

Either BYU's coaches are idiots and did implement that defensive strategy, or they're lying. Each player is given 5 fouls, and in 36 MPG (basically the entire game) Jimmer averaged 1.3 fouls per game. Besides film, that tells me he didn't even pretend to try and that's damn foolish and it falls on someone's feet. EITHER WAY, how can it just be expected he'll learn how to play against literally the quickest basketball players on earth? Losing bet, and as far as the character thing goes, the race card is a two-way street. Maybe Jimmer is more athletic than he's given credit for because of his race, but he's definitely painted in a saintly manner because of his appearance as well. And in response to "well BYU went 32-5 so he's obviously a good player lololol"; He led BYU to the Sweet 16 once in four years and BYU plays in a weak conference (outside of UNLV and SDSU, neither of whom make any noise in the tournament either). And Carlos Boozer won a national championship. Food for thought.

 

[BENTLEY]

Instead of drafting T. Jones or a questionable wing

the Jazz might wanna wait til 2012.

SFs:
Barnes
Gilchrist
P. Jones
McAdoo

and at SG there's Rivers and Lamb.

 

[BENTLEY]

He (Fredette) led BYU to the Sweet 16 once in four years and BYU plays in a weak conference (outside of UNLV and SDSU, neither of whom make any noise in the tournament either). And Carlos Boozer won a national championship. Food for thought.

Let's add some garnish.

Boozer's teammates: Jay Williams, Shane Battier, Mike Dunleavy, Chris Duhon.
Fredette's teammates: Jackson Emery, Noah Hartsock, Charles Abouo, Brandon Davies.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Donatas Motiejunas for some reason reminds me of another Darko Milicic, has as much potential as one could have, great offensive player, and is dominating the euro-leagues. I don't think Motiejunas will pan out just like Milicic didn't, Motiejunas might go in the top five if someone really has faith in him, but most likely in the six to ten range. Milicic is a pretty good role player, but considering where he went #2 in one of the best drafts ever he is a bust. Motiejunas might pan out you never know, but I still think he will be another Milicic and not be as good as his potential suggests.

Keith Benson is a player I would consider at #12, Benson is a senior at Oakland and averaged 17.9 PPG, 10.1 RPG, and 3.6 BPG. Don't say it was against weak competition either because Oakland played West Virginia, Purdue, Illinois, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State and Tennessee all this year. It would be a reach to take him at #12, but he is 6-11 and weighs 225 lbs. Benson has great height, a 7-2 wingspan, needs to gain weight and muscle though only weighing 225 lbs is a killer. Benson would be a player that the Jazz could trade down a bit to take, like I said it would be a reach at #12, but you never know.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

the Jazz might wanna wait til 2012.

SFs:
Barnes
Gilchrist
P. Jones
McAdoo

and at SG there's Rivers and Lamb.

I'll take T. Jones over P. Jones. T actually as a motor. The Jazz should focus on getting ONE good player near the top of the draft and take their chances thereafter.

 

[The Thriller]

I wonder if there are 12 'lottery' worth draft picks in this draft.

Probably not.

So why waste a pick on another stiff?

Get the best athlete available. There's always room for someone to wreck havoc in the passing lanes, run the court, play defense, dunk, and run a fastbreak.

What does a weak stiff do other than sit on the bench and get his shot blocked when he does play? Kosta Koufus is a complete waste. Likewise, Jonas would be a complete waste. I wouldn't even take him in the 2nd round from what I've seen. I'd much rather piss away a draft pick on a tremendous athlete like Ronnie Price hoping he'll amount to something rather than waste one away on some stiff.

 

[Favors Flave]

Keith Benson is a player I would consider at #12, Benson is a senior at Oakland and averaged 17.9 PPG, 10.1 RPG, and 3.6 BPG. Don't say it was against weak competition either because Oakland played West Virginia, Purdue, Illinois, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State and Tennessee all this year. It would be a reach to take him at #12, but he is 6-11 and weighs 225 lbs. Benson has great height, a 7-2 wingspan, needs to gain weight and muscle though only weighing 225 lbs is a killer. Benson would be a player that the Jazz could trade down a bit to take, like I said it would be a reach at #12, but you never know.[/QUOTE]

Considering he is supposed to go mid 2nd round, it would be the worst decision ever in history to take him at 12. I'd consider him in the 2nd round but we don't have a 2nd round pick.

 

[BENTLEY]

I'll take T. Jones over P. Jones. T actually as a motor. The Jazz should focus on getting ONE good player near the top of the draft and take their chances thereafter.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of P. Jones but maybe next year he'll put it together and win some games for Baylor.
But I think P. Jones and T. Jones both have question marks whereas I have a lot more confidence in Barnes, Gilchrist, Rivers and Lamb. There's also Quincy Miller and Bradley Beal to choose from next year as well.

It's not that T. Jones isn't talented - I just like these other guys better so I'd rather go for someone at perhaps a different position this year rather than settle for Terrence.

 

[Archie Moses]

Let's add some garnish.

Boozer's teammates: Jay Williams, Shane Battier, Mike Dunleavy, Chris Duhon.
Fredette's teammates: Jackson Emery, Noah Hartsock, Charles Abouo, Brandon Davies.

Ownage.

 

[BENTLEY]

Keith Benson is a player I would consider at #12, Benson is a senior at Oakland and averaged 17.9 PPG, 10.1 RPG, and 3.6 BPG. Don't say it was against weak competition either because Oakland played West Virginia, Purdue, Illinois, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State and Tennessee all this year. It would be a reach to take him at #12, but he is 6-11 and weighs 225 lbs. Benson has great height, a 7-2 wingspan, needs to gain weight and muscle though only weighing 225 lbs is a killer.

He weighs more than Camby.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

the Jazz might wanna wait til 2012.

SFs:
Barnes
Gilchrist
P. Jones
McAdoo

and at SG there's Rivers and Lamb.

Yeah because Perry Jones isn't questionable.

I would take Jones in a heartbeat at 12. Athleticism. Check. Rebounding. Check. A defensive player. Check. An ability to create his own shot. Check. Someone who's shown some semblance of shooting. Check. Some people on here like Leonard but Jones shot better from downtown as a frosh than Leonard did as a sophomore. Typically, these guys improve a lot in year two too. He was also 55% from three point range in the tourney (5 of 9) which tells me he does have some ability to recognize shot selection and choose his battles. Might the kid have some character issues? Sure. He also is flawed (I'm not crazy about his ability to drive at the next level--he's sort of awkward and gets sort of caught into awkward shots because he can't pull up and finishes oddly). But who the hell isn't at #12?

 

[NAOS]

Yeah because Perry Jones isn't questionable.

I would take Jones in a heartbeat at 12. Athleticism. Check. Rebounding. Check. A defensive player. Check. An ability to create his own shot. Check. Someone who's shown some semblance of shooting. Check. Some people on here like Leonard but Jones shot better from downtown as a frosh than Leonard did as a sophomore. Typically, these guys improve a lot in year two too. He was also 55% from three point range in the tourney (5 of 9) which tells me he does have some ability to recognize shot selection and choose his battles. Might the kid have some character issues? Sure. He also is flawed (I'm not crazy about his ability to drive at the next level--he's sort of awkward and gets sort of caught into awkward shots because he can't pull up and finishes oddly). But who the hell isn't at #12?

If I'm taking a flyer out on a guy that has some serious question marks but might turn into a good NBA player, then I think I'd rather have Burks than Jones. If Burks can develop his shooting and defense then he'd be awesome.

 

[BENTLEY]

Yeah because Perry Jones isn't questionable.

P. Jones is plenty questionable but Gilchrist and Barnes and Lamb and Rivers are less so. I don't want either of the Jones boys (sorry I included Perry). And that's not to say that neither will be good. They both could be - and Terrence is the more likely of the two.

He also is flawed (I'm not crazy about his ability to drive at the next level--he's sort of awkward and gets sort of caught into awkward shots because he can't pull up and finishes oddly).

I think this might be because he's more of a 4 than a 3 - and at the 4 he doesn't have as much value. And in Utah he won't get much time at the 4 anyway.

But who the hell isn't at #12?

I concede he may be BPA at 12. But I think his ceiling is limited and I'd still gamble on someone else I think. Especially when there are plenty of fallback wings in the 2012 draft.

 

[BENTLEY]

If I'm taking a flyer out on a guy that has some serious question marks but might turn into a good NBA player, then I think I'd rather have Burks than Jones. If Burks can develop his shooting and defense then he'd be awesome.

I'd prefer Burks to Terrence as well.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Let's add some garnish.

Boozer's teammates: Jay Williams, Shane Battier, Mike Dunleavy, Chris Duhon.
Fredette's teammates: Jackson Emery, Noah Hartsock, Charles Abouo, Brandon Davies.

Right. But amount of talent doesn't always equal the best team, nor lack of it equal the worst. KU couldn't get it done last year doing their best Fab 5 impersonation, neither could the Fab 5. Butler found themselves in the national championship game in consecutive years despite having only one, maybe two NBA players. My point is that pointing to Jimmer's greatness when he didn't accomplish it with his team doesn't mean much, especially in college where smart play wins out. And all of those no-names you listed allowed His Greatness to coast worse than just about anyone in college basketball on D.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

If I'm taking a flyer out on a guy that has some serious question marks but might turn into a good NBA player, then I think I'd rather have Burks than Jones. If Burks can develop his shooting and defense then he'd be awesome.

For me, it's a toss-up. And it appears of the two, that Jones is more likely to be there at 12 then Burks. That's one reason why I mentioned him. The other is because he's a three. I'm not sure I'm sold on Hayward being a very good 3. Maybe I'm wrong. But I see him as a 2 and therefore see our needs being at the 3, 1, 5, 2, 4 in that order. Maybe that's foolish. Maybe Hayward can play the 3 and we can get Burks this year, as well as maybe get lucky next year and get Barnes somehow to round out the wings. But the latter is asking a lot and feeling how I do about Hayward being a 2, I would like Jones at the 3. He might need some coddling though and I'm not sure we have the staff or players to help him there.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

P. Jones is plenty questionable but Gilchrist and Barnes and Lamb and Rivers are less so. I don't want either of the Jones boys (sorry I included Perry). And that's not to say that neither will be good. They both could be - and Terrence is the more likely of the two.


I think this might be because he's more of a 4 than a 3 - and at the 4 he doesn't have as much value. And in Utah he won't get much time at the 4 anyway.


I concede he may be BPA at 12. But I think his ceiling is limited and I'd still gamble on someone else I think. Especially when there are plenty of fallback wings in the 2012 draft.

Jones is not a 4. He's a 3 in the NBA no question. And I see his ceiling being as high as anyone in this draft. His three biggest flaws are perhaps character (which isn't that bad; he plays with passion), his ability to finish off the dribble (again, he was a frosh; he has the athleticism to do so) and his outside shooting/form which to me is wildly overrated given the fact that he was a freshman and that many a NBA player has been successful with weird form. See Gordon who I think came into this season with a very weird looking shot. That's just my opinion though.

 

[NUMBERICA]

He weighs more than Camby.

Camby doesn't have a good reputation for holding down his matchup either.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Jones is not a 4. He's a 3 in the NBA no question. And I see his ceiling being as high as anyone in this draft. His three biggest flaws are perhaps character (which isn't that bad; he plays with passion), his ability to finish off the dribble (again, he was a frosh; he has the athleticism to do so) and his outside shooting/form which to me is wildly overrated given the fact that he was a freshman and that many a NBA player has been successful with weird form. See Gordon who I think came into this season with a very weird looking shot. That's just my opinion though.

Don't forget that he is a poor defender and poor rebounder even though he's on another planet physically. And he rattles easily. And he takes horrible shots. Playing hard and being smart are as much an inherent trait as athleticism is, and the kid doesn't have those things.

 

[BENTLEY]

Right. But amount of talent doesn't always equal the best team, nor lack of it equal the worst. KU couldn't get it done last year doing their best Fab 5 impersonation, neither could the Fab 5. Butler found themselves in the national championship game in consecutive years despite having only one, maybe two NBA players.

I agree with this. You're saying how far a team gets in the tourney is no indication of an individual player's talent on the team. --Which refutes your original statement that Fredette won't be a good NBA player because BYU only reached the sweet 16.

This debate, like all Jimmer debates, is pointless. His definition at the NBA level is almost impossible to predict. He has a lot of positives to his game and also a lot of negatives. I just think it's wise to not focus too much on a negative that you no longer see the positives (I might be doing this with T. Jones). Every prospect is a gamble but Fredette's offensive talent does well to offset the risk his defense presents.

all of those no-names you listed allowed His Greatness to coast worse than just about anyone in college basketball on D.

I agree. I wasn't trying to pwn you or anything. I hate it when things on here devolve into ttit for tat stuff. Regarding Jimmer there are so many bleary eyed fans that I think they cause a reaction in those that can see more clearly that he's still very flawed. The two groups seem to have polarized each other into either extreme adoration and vehement hate. The truth is somewhere in the middle.