2016 NBA Playoff Thread

[fishonjazz]

of course, that's what i was referring to. I actually really like Lillard but i don't think he's a superstar.

I agree about him not being a superstar. There are only about 5 or 6 superstars in the league imo and he isn't on their level. (He still has potential to get better though)
I do think he is a star though, just not a superstar.
He averages 25 points, 7 assists, and 4 rebounds per game.

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[Douchebag K]

I agree about him not being a superstar. There are only about 5 or 6 superstars in the league imo and he isn't on their level. (He still has potential to get better though)
I do think he is a star though, just not a superstar.
He averages 25 points, 7 assists, and 4 rebounds per game.

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he'd have to improve his defense a bunch, i mean by a massive amount. And not disappear late in games

 

[fishonjazz]

he'd have to improve his defense a bunch, i mean by a massive amount. And not disappear late in games

Just ask yourself how many guys in the nba can do this (hayward never will guaranteed).....
Starting feb 4th and ending March 8th (a 15 game stretch) he scored 27 points, 21 points, 33 points, 31 points, 51 points against the warriors!, 30 points (against the jazz), 34 points, 23 points, 31 points, 33 points, 30 points, 20 points, 50 points again!, 26 points, and 41 points.
That's 10 games over 30, 3 games over 40, and two games over 50 points in a 15 game stretch.

Dude can totally take over and carry a team. And has the potential to get better. Give him a better roster and a few more years experience and I could see him taking over playoff series.

Those numbers are phenomenal and I still think he is getting better.

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[Ron Mexico]

Mainly because of lillard though.
As far as getting into the playoffs anyway.

I agree about how they got to the second round

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I
Seems like he hasnt had a great playoffs and other teammates have stepped up. He is shooting 36 percent and his assists are down from his norm as well. In the Clippers series after CP3 went down who was dominating him game 4 CJ and Plumlee stepped up big time. Game 4 Lillard was awful and Aminu stepped up big time. Game 5 CJ and Harkless stepped up despite for Lillard shooting 7-20. His best game of the series was game 6 where he was 9-21. The two losses against Ws without Curry he tried to step up in game 1 and did score 30 but on 8-26 shooting. Game 2 he had a slow start and then 1 huge quarter before disappearing and choking away game 2. He was 0-4 in the fourth quarter when they had a decent lead. I do like him but its not like he is doing anything special in the playoffs this year and that is only talking about his strength his offense and not about his glaring weakness defense.

 

[fishonjazz]

I
Seems like he hasnt had a great playoffs and other teammates have stepped up. He is shooting 36 percent and his assists are down from his norm as well. In the Clippers series after CP3 went down who was dominating him game 4 CJ and Plumlee stepped up big time. Game 4 Lillard was awful and Aminu stepped up big time. Game 5 CJ and Harkless stepped up despite for Lillard shooting 7-20. His best game of the series was game 6 where he was 9-21. The two losses against Ws without Curry he tried to step up in game 1 and did score 30 but on 8-26 shooting. Game 2 he had a slow start and then 1 huge quarter before disappearing and choking away game 2. He was 0-4 in the fourth quarter when they had a decent lead. I do like him but its not like he is doing anything special in the playoffs this year and that is only talking about his strength his offense and not about his glaring weakness defense.

Yep he is a young player with little playoff experience and a roster that is not set up to compete with the heavy hitters and stars in the upper part of the western conference. (The blazers were predicted to win like 25 games this season) And It shows. He is struggling right now. I totally agree. I think he (and his team) will get better.

But I ask you, how many players in the nba can have a scoring stretch of games like lillard had this year? Curry, durant, maybe harden, maybe westbrook?

Starting feb 4th and ending March 8th (a 15 game stretch) he scored 27 points, 21 points, 33 points, 31 points, 51 points against the warriors!, 30 points (against the jazz), 34 points, 23 points, 31 points, 33 points, 30 points, 20 points, 50 points again!, 26 points, and 41 points.
That's 10 games over 30, 3 games over 40, and two games over 50 points in a 15 game stretch.

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[Ron Mexico]

Just ask yourself how many guys in the nba can do this (hayward never will guaranteed).....
Starting feb 4th and ending March 8th (a 15 game stretch) he scored 27 points, 21 points, 33 points, 31 points, 51 points against the warriors!, 30 points (against the jazz), 34 points, 23 points, 31 points, 33 points, 30 points, 20 points, 50 points again!, 26 points, and 41 points.
That's 10 games over 30, 3 games over 40, and two games over 50 points in a 15 game stretch.

Dude can totally take over and carry a team. And has the potential to get better. Give him a better roster and a few more years experience and I could see him taking over playoff series.

Those numbers are phenomenal and I still think he is getting better.

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That was a good stretch and when his shot is on he can be really good for spurts. I do think he will probably improve but I also think Hayward will improve and also needs a better team around him (at the very least a healthy one and not a bunch of d-leaguers he had for large chunks of this season). Lillard had the better roster this year. I think the Jazz have the better roster but had too many injuries. Lillard did have a 20 point a night guy helping him every game this year and some solid vets all around.

They are almost the same age. I think 4 months separate them.

 

[Douchebag K]

Just ask yourself how many guys in the nba can do this (hayward never will guaranteed).....
Starting feb 4th and ending March 8th (a 15 game stretch) he scored 27 points, 21 points, 33 points, 31 points, 51 points against the warriors!, 30 points (against the jazz), 34 points, 23 points, 31 points, 33 points, 30 points, 20 points, 50 points again!, 26 points, and 41 points.
That's 10 games over 30, 3 games over 40, and two games over 50 points in a 15 game stretch.

Dude can totally take over and carry a team. And has the potential to get better. Give him a better roster and a few more years experience and I could see him taking over playoff series.

Those numbers are phenomenal and I still think he is getting better.

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How do you see him getting better ?

 

[Douchebag K]

Just ask yourself how many guys in the nba can do this (hayward never will guaranteed).....
Starting feb 4th and ending March 8th (a 15 game stretch) he scored 27 points, 21 points, 33 points, 31 points, 51 points against the warriors!, 30 points (against the jazz), 34 points, 23 points, 31 points, 33 points, 30 points, 20 points, 50 points again!, 26 points, and 41 points.
That's 10 games over 30, 3 games over 40, and two games over 50 points in a 15 game stretch.

Dude can totally take over and carry a team. And has the potential to get better. Give him a better roster and a few more years experience and I could see him taking over playoff series.

Those numbers are phenomenal and I still think he is getting better.

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How do you see him getting better ?

 

[fishonjazz]

That was a good stretch and when his shot is on he can be really good for spurts.

When his shot is on like in that stretch he is better than really good for spurts.... He is one of the best players in the league. Even when haywards shot is on he will never have a 15 game scoring stretch like that in his entire career. I would bet everything on that.

Haywards ceiling is a great player. An all star player.

Lillards ceiling is an mvp, all nba type guy. That 15 game stretch shows what he is capable of. Those are mvp type numbers.

Now he may never get close to his ceiling and hayward might end up being the better and more consistent all around player..... But if lillard hits his ceiling he will be special.


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[fishonjazz]

How do you see him getting better ?

Intelligence, bbiq, better teammates and coaches, more star treatment from refs, stronger, better defensively, more experienced, leadership, savy.

His speed and athleticism and shooting mean that the sky is the limit for him.

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[Ron Mexico]

Lillard will be 26 in a couple months. I dont see his ceiling as being all that much higher. I do think he will improve but it will be incremental. I actually see Favors, who is the same age, as being capable of improving more.

I firmly think Hayward had a better year this year and has an equal upside. I think people are more down on him because of how the season finished out. I would not trade Hayward for Lillard but I do view them as the same tier. But I could see their careers playing out a number of different ways and dont know what will happen. I would put the Jazz ahead of Portland as a team and as far as their future is concerned I would bet on the Jazz over Portland. If the rosters are about the same next year and both teams are healthy I think Jazz finish 4-5 games or more ahead of Portland.

I would love to have Lillard though. I would trade Exum, Burk and picks for him (not that Portland would bite) and that is saying something since I am sure Exum's floor is a solid starter and has the potential to be better than Lillard. But Lillard is a guarantee and fits in well with Hayward and Favors since he is the same age.

 

[fishonjazz]

It's just funny cause as jazz fans plenty of us will choose hayward over a player like lillard.... And that makes sense. We are jazz fans and hayward is our guy.

But I'm quite certain that people outside of utah (fans, media, coaches, gm's) would almost be unanimous thinking lillard is the better player. A lot would probably just laugh at the thought of hayward being better. Whether right or wrong.

Hayward is really good. The best player on our team. But that is why the jazz have not been to the playoffs in forever.

Now I certainly blame our playoff absence this season on injuries and think we would have got in if healthy. But still wouldn't have made any noise and even at our peak if hayward is still our best player we can only hope to be about as good as the hawks or raptors. Look at the rosters for those two teams. Loaded with really good players. Quite deep. Both teams have players as good as hayward. Both teams don't have a player that will have a stretch of games like lillard will though. Those teams don't have any stars that can just dominate a series with ease and carry their team through a series. A guy who can drop 40 or 50 points out of no where.

Lillard has that potential though.

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[fishonjazz]

Lillard will be 26 in a couple months. I dont see his ceiling as being all that much higher. I do think he will improve but it will be incremental. I actually see Favors, who is the same age, as being capable of improving more.

I firmly think Hayward had a better year this year and has an equal upside. I think people are more down on him because of how the season finished out. I would not trade Hayward for Lillard but I do view them as the same tier. But I could see their careers playing out a number of different ways and dont know what will happen. I would put the Jazz ahead of Portland as a team and as far as their future is concerned I would bet on the Jazz over Portland. If the rosters are about the same next year and both teams are healthy I think Jazz finish 4-5 games or more ahead of Portland.

You are a jazz fan so this all makes sense and I do think Hayward has a better supporting cast going forward

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[Ron Mexico]

You are a jazz fan so this all makes sense and I do think Hayward has a better supporting cast going forward

It sounds like I am bagging on Lillard but I am a huge fan. I watched a ton of him at Weber and was really rooting for him. I also lived in Oregon for a large chunk of my life and Portland is my number 2 team.

I think sports writers and fans would pick Lillard over Hayward but I think coaches and maybe GMs would pick Hayward. Every coach seems to really like him.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think coaches and maybe GMs would pick Hayward.

I think there would be a few.... But not many.

And you might be right in the end. There is no way to know how their careers will go. Hayward might end up being the better player. I would be surprised but not shocked if that turned out to be the case.

It sounds like I'm bagging on hayward and maybe I kind of am... But I do think he is a low level all star and the best player on the jazz (I have thought that for quite a few years now), I just think we need our best player to be better than Hayward to have a chance at any real glory.

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[fishonjazz]

he'd have to improve his defense a bunch, i mean by a massive amount.

I disagree. Dirk was a star and not a very good defender. Harden comes to mind. Durant and griffin don't play superb defense, d will was no lock down defender.

Top notch elite level scorers always have a chance to be a star regardless of defense.... You can always get great defensive role players like tristan Thompson, Tony Allen, tyson Chandler, etc etc to put around an elite scorer.

Elite scorers are the top commodity in the nba imo. Once you get one of them you have a chance to build around them and get a championship.

Kobe, wade, curry, dirk, lebron and irving, westbrook and durant, steph and thompson. Having guys like that make filling out the rest of your roster easier.

Again, look at the raptors and hawks rosters. Loaded. Schroder, teague, korver, horford, millsap, bazemore, mike scott, sefalosha, splitter.
Derozan, lowry, jonas val, demarre carroll, corey joseph, patrick patterson, ross, scola, byombo, powell.
Tons of good players. No true star. No chance.

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[Douchebag K]

I disagree. Dirk was a star and not a very good defender. Harden comes to mind. Durant and griffin don't play superb defense, d will was no lock down defender.

Top notch elite level scorers always have a chance to be a star regardless of defense.... You can always get great defensive role players like tristan Thompson, Tony Allen, tyson Chandler, etc etc to put around an elite scorer.

Elite scorers are the top commodity in the nba imo. Once you get one of them you have a chance to build around them and get a championship.

Kobe, wade, curry, dirk, lebron and irving, westbrook and durant, steph and thompson. Having guys like that make filling out the rest of your roster easier.

Again, look at the raptors and hawks rosters. Loaded. Schroder, teague, korver, horford, millsap, bazemore, mike scott, sefalosha, splitter.
Derozan, lowry, jonas val, demarre carroll, corey joseph, patrick patterson, ross, scola, byombo, powell.
Tons of good players. No true star. No chance.

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Very true, absolute bona fide superstar offensive players are a prize commodity. I just don't see Lillard as being in that upper echelon. He'll certainly win games for you but he's also just as likely to shoot 8-26 and lose a playoff game for you. He's what, 26 and his D still stinks. I really like him but I don't see him as that much more valuable than Hayward. Reverse the injury situations and some luck this year and I think we'd be in Portlands situation and they'd be in ours easily. Lillard didn't have clearly non-NBA talent as half his roster the last few years.

 

[RJF]

Wrong thread fellas. This is playoffs thread. GTFO.

 

[spycam1]

Not sure how this became a Lillard vs Hayward discussion, but I'd take Lillard.

I wonder if we could get him to come here when he hits UFA. Of all the star-ish players, he probably likes Utah the best.

But hopefully Exum lives up to the hype and we don't have to worry about the PG position anymore.

 

[fishonjazz]

I wonder if we could get him to come here when he hits UFA. Of all the star-ish players, he probably likes Utah the best.

Good point. Would be awesome to get him but I agree that best case scenario is that Exum becomes a star player.

So much for the jazz rides on Exum. He was our reward for our tank (that corbin tried his best to destroy). Hope so much he pans out

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