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2018 All-Time NBA Draft FINALS: Grayson's Hands vs. Ellis269

Which team would win in a 7-game series?

  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .
Elizah Huge

Elizah Huge

Respect All, Fear None
Contributor
2024 Award Winner
Team Grayson's Hands:

PG - Gary Payton / Mark Price
SG - Dwyane Wade / Drazen Petrovic
SF - Grant Hill / Michael Finley
PF - Karl Malone / Elton Brand
C - Dikembe Mutombo / Robert Parish

Team Ellis269:

PG - Giannis Antetokounmpo / Walt Frazier
SG - Michael Jordan / George Gervin
SF - Dominique Wilkins / Bernard King
PF - Shawn Kemp / Kevin Love
C - Patrick Ewing / Artis Gilmore

Grayson's Hands’ Case:

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Gary Payton

NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1996)
9x NBA All-Defensive First Team (1994-2002)

Dwyane Wade

3x NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2005, 2009, 2010)

Karl Malone

3x NBA All-Defensive First Team (1997-1999)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1988)

Dikembe Mutombo

4x NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1995, 1997, 1998, 2001)
3x NBA All-Defensive First Team (1997, 1998, 2001)
3x NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1995, 1999, 2002)

Jordan Stopper

Down 0-3 in the 1996 NBA Finals the Sonics finally decided to let Payton guard Jordan. The Sonics would go on to win 2 straight games before eventually losing 4-2.

Game 4 - Jordan had 23 points on 6-19 from the field with 4 turnovers
Game 5 - Jordan had 26 points on 11-22 from the field with 2 turnovers
Game 6 - Jordan had 22 points on 5-19 from the field with 5 turnovers

Malone and Kemp have played against each other 60 times in their careers:

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Mutombo and Ewing have played against each other 29 times in their careers:

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As you can see Malone absolutely has dominated Kemp. Mutombo has outrebounded Ewing by 4 RPG and has him beat in blocks by 0.5 BPG in their matchups. Ewing only outscored him by 4.7 PPG. That matchup is a lot closer than you think.

@Ellis269 has a great team that has caused a lot of mismatches for other teams but my team matches up great against his. Payton will guard Jordan, Wade will guard Giannis and Hill will guard Wilkins.

My team has two 30+ PPG scorers in Wade/Malone which is a deadly duo. Combine that with 15x All-Defensive First team choices, 7x All-Defensive Second team choices and 5x DPOY winners in my starting lineup and you have a winning combination.

Ellis269’s Case:

Starters - PG: Giannis Antetokounmpo, SG: Michael Jordan, SF: Dominique Wilkins, PF: Shawn Kemp and C: Patrick Ewing

Bench - PG: Walt Frazier, SG: George “Iceman” Gervin (6th man), SF: Bernard King, PF: Kevin Love and C: Artis Gilmore











I really like @Grayson’s Hands team. Thought the move to get Payton, DWade and Malone at the end there was risky but brilliant. Not surprised he’s in the finals with me. I’ve got nothing bad to say about his team. Mine is just better.

I still think that my team’s strengths hold up to win this thing. Too much length and athleticism for his team to matchup with, as well as too much offensive firepower.

My team is a matchup nightmare, and my bench is loaded with Hall of Fame superstars. I’ve got too many players capable of taking over and going for 30, 40, even 50 on any given night. Playoff Jordan was easily capable of dropping huge scoring nights on anyone. It’s one of the things that made him the Greatest of all time.
 
This is just awfully close. Really too close to call. It comes down to who you think will make a big play in crunch time. I'm going to give the slightest of edges to Grayson's Hands because I believe in Gary Payton and Karl Malone to outperform Giannis and Kemp when it really counts.
 
Damn, I thought this is the year WC would finally win, but Ellis' team is formidable. DWade is good but MJ is GREAT. Giannis is long enough to defend Payton.

Ellis for me. (sorry WC).

I do feel kinda bad for trading Dominique to Ellis, but Thee Jazz Fan kept bagging and I just had to trade him.

Plus nobody else wanted him but Ellis did.. so I guess you snooze you lose right???.. LOL ..
 
Too close to call.
I hate giannis at pg. if Ellis had a real pg on his team this would be easier.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Damn, I thought this is the year WC would finally win, but Ellis' team is formidable. DWade is good but MJ is GREAT. Giannis is long enough to defend Payton.

Ellis for me. (sorry WC).

I do feel kinda bad for trading Dominique to Ellis, but Thee Jazz Fan kept bagging and I just had to trade him.

Plus nobody else wanted him but Ellis did.. so I guess you snooze you lose right???.. LOL ..
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Wow!! I didn’t pester you, we were having a discussion back and fourth, and had I known all it would take to trade for Wilkins was my next pick, I would’ve jumped on that.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Damn, I thought this is the year WC would finally win, but Ellis' team is formidable. DWade is good but MJ is GREAT. Giannis is long enough to defend Payton.

Ellis for me. (sorry WC).

I do feel kinda bad for trading Dominique to Ellis, but Thee Jazz Fan kept bagging and I just had to trade him.

Plus nobody else wanted him but Ellis did.. so I guess you snooze you lose right???.. LOL ..
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Trading a player because somebody rags on your pick is something you and WC do every single draft, every single time.

You gotta get wise to that, my man.
 
Is it weird that in this era of 3 point shooting neither of our Finals teams starts a shooter?

I'm going with because that Payton, Wade, Hill trifecta is terrific and because Robert Parrish is totally underrated.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Damn, I thought this is the year WC would finally win, but Ellis' team is formidable. DWade is good but MJ is GREAT. Giannis is long enough to defend Payton.

Ellis for me. (sorry WC).

I do feel kinda bad for trading Dominique to Ellis, but Thee Jazz Fan kept bagging and I just had to trade him.

Plus nobody else wanted him but Ellis did.. so I guess you snooze you lose right???.. LOL ..
Click to expand...

Dude are you serious? I offered you a deal for Wilkins and you never replied and that was before you traded him to Ellis. You traded him for 64 and I offered you 67, 68, 89 for Wilkins, 53, 149. Same deal (64/67) and I added 68 + 89 for 53 + 149.

I don’t care that you traded him but don’t act like you didn’t have offers and better offers than what you got.
 
Extremely close matchup but I have the Jordan Stopper on my team to guard Jordan himself.

Malone has abused Kemp their entire careers.

Mutombo has essentially played even with Ewing when they played.

Wade/Hill >>> Giannis/Wilkins

I definitely feel like my team is more cohesive and fits together better than his team does.

My team is also light years ahead of his defensively and we all know that defense wins games.
 
fishonjazz said:
Too close to call.
I hate giannis at pg. if Ellis had a real pg on his team this would be easier.
Click to expand...
How come?

I like him there. He played pretty well in this role at times. He plays on the ball most of the time for the Buck's. The only difference is who brings the ball up the court I guess.

Although in this situation Jordan would handle the ball like he did his whole career.
 
I think the PG and SF spot are pretty close in this matchup.

Malone is better than Kemp. Although I did point out my last strong memory of Kemp is outplaying Malone to get to the finals the year before we went to the finals twice. But I'm still taking Malone as significantly better.

Obviously Jordan is much better than Wade.

So at this point its still pretty even for me.

The difference is the center spot for me. Ewing is better.

And then the bench is much much better for Ellis. Although that is less important but this matchup is close so it's more important.

This one was close.
 
fishonjazz said:
Too close to call.
I hate giannis at pg. if Ellis had a real pg on his team this would be easier.
Click to expand...

My team is superior defensively.

- 15x All-NBA Defensive First Team selections
- 7x All-NBA Defensive Second Team selections
- 5x DPOY

Malone would feast on Kemp like he did their entire careers. Mutombo has played even or outplayed Ewing depending on what you like in their matchups.

I feel like Wade and Hill are both underrated as well. Wade was a 30 PPG guy in his prime and go watch the 2006 Finals if you forget how good he is. Hill was a point-forward before there ever was one and averaged 21.4 PPG, 9 RPG and 7.3 APG in his prime before the injuries.

I think the matchup is close but I am better defensively and matchup better with him than he does with me.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I think the PG and SF spot are pretty close in this matchup.

Malone is better than Kemp. Although I did point out my last strong memory of Kemp is outplaying Malone to get to the finals the year before we went to the finals twice. But I'm still taking Malone as significantly better.

Obviously Jordan is much better than Wade.

So at this point its still pretty even for me.

The difference is the center spot for me. Ewing is better.

And then the bench is much much better for Ellis. Although that is less important but this matchup is close so it's more important.

This one was close.
Click to expand...

Jordan isn’t “much better” than Wade. He’s obviously better but it’s insane how underrated Wade is on here. Price/Drazen/Parish off the bench isn’t no slouch either.

You also probably didn’t look at the stats I posted of when Malone/Kemp played each other and Mutombo/Ewing.
 
Grayson's Hands said:
Jordan isn’t “much better” than Wade. He’s obviously better but it’s insane how underrated Wade is on here. Price/Drazen/Parish off the bench isn’t no slouch either.

You also probably didn’t look at the stats I posted of when Malone/Kemp played each other and Mutombo/Ewing.
Click to expand...
I did look at those. Malone is better than Kemp, no question about that.

It's not a knock on Wade but he isn't in the conversation if GOAT. Jordan is hands down the GOAT.

I like Dikembe he just isn't quite as good as Ewing. It's not a huge gap but Ewing is better.
 
The gap between Jordan and Wade is about the same as the gap between Malone and Kemp. That why it was close.

The difference is Ellis has a slightly better center and a much better bench.
 
Frazier/Gervin/King are really underrated. That bench is scary and frankly it is probably better to start Frazier and bring GA off the bench.
 
I chose Ellis but I do think this would be a 7 game series that would come down to the wire in the seventh game with MJ doing MJ things, that's why I chose Ellis. I think Ellis should win by a 1 or 2 vote discrepancy but WC's team is nice.
 
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