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2018 Annual JazzFanz LEGENDARY Players - Round 2 Match 2 - Gandalfe vs Wes Mantooth

Who would win in a seven game matchup?

  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .
gandalfe

gandalfe

Well-Known Member
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Gandalfe -
Oscar Robertson/ Walt Frazier
Pete Maravich/ Sidney Moncrief
George Gervin/ Andrei Kirilenko
Charles Barkley/ Marcus Camby
Kareem Abdul Jabbar/ Dikembe Mutombo

Wes Mantooth -
Chauncey Billups/ Kevin Johnson
Kobe Bryant/ Joe Dumars
Larry Bird/ Bernard King
Dennis Rodman/ Rasheed Wallace
Bill Russell/ Bill Walton


Gandalfe’s argument:

My starters have simply overwhelming firepower, from Kareem’s unblockable sky-hook to the amazing craftiness of the Round Mound, Iceman’s 3 consecutive scoring titles, Pistol Pete’s insane ball handling and shooting, and the Big O’s 25 PPG along with 9.5 APG and 6 assist titles (more than anyone except Stockton or Cousy).

But if, somehow, things are going badly? I’ve got insane defense to back them up. (not that the starters are slouches - Kareem is #3 all time in blocks) 7 DPOYs between them (including the first 2), the first non-center to lead the league in blocks (AK47), 9 years leading the league in blocks (including 5 in a row for Motumbo!).


Wes Mantooth’s argument:

I have the best non-active small forward in this in Bird and the second best shooting guard in Kobe. Neither of those can be argued. I also have arguably the best center ever. I know we typically show recency bias (this board loves Hakeem) but most experts would select Russell or Wilt as the greatest center ever. Maybe Kareem.

I also have the best defensive center of all-time and a monster rebounder alongside perhaps the best defensive power forward of all-time and best rebounder at his position. The defense up front is almost too good. On the other end, I have Bird, Kobe and Billups, three of the clutchest players in history.

Chauncey is my “weak spot” but we are talking about a great two way player who won a Finals MVP for God’s sake.

While we are on that, Chauncey, Kobe, Bird, Walton and Dumars won Finals MVP’s for me. And oh yes, the award is named after my center Bill Russell because he was the MVP so to speak on all the championship Celtics’ teams.

These guys are not just studs. They’re winners. My starters have 24 rings combined. 24!

They play both ends. And they play to win. Simple as that.

And you come to my bench and Walton (a top 5 player of all-time for Bill Simmons...he was that good) and King and Dumars are just insane to have come off the bench.

So far as flexibility goes, I have it. I can bring Rodman out whenever I want and slide Bird over to the 4 (look at his size and rebounding numbers next to Parrish and McHale) or bring Rasheed in for 10-12 a game to stretch the floor and bring the nasty.

Which is something I also have in spades. My guys are tough as ****.
 
I'm not sure I've seen a more even matchup on Jazzfanz. I think that this would be a classic 7 game series. I give the slight edge (and my vote) to Gandalfe's team. I think that there would be times where the offensive production of Kareem/Barkley would be too much to overcome at times because a Russell/Rodman front court wouldn't provide much offense. Still, I could see it going either way.
 
gandalfe said:
6'10". Still is (ok, maybe he's shrunk).
Kareem is 7'2".
Click to expand...

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Two teams are exactly equal. All 7 games end in an unbreakable tie. Great teams.
 
For me what separates my team from his are the number of winners and clutch players. He’s got Kareem, yes. But Russell and Rodman can do so much to him defensively, so who is taking the pressure off of Kareem and helping him out? Did any of those other starters win a title? Oscar did, but with Kareem.

That’s it. My team is so collectively strong and most anyone can hurt you and be depended on in huge spots.

Also Pete stunk defensively. I have no weak spot like that.
 
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I just don’t see Pete, Gervin (never made a Finals, not even in the ABA), or even Barkley or Oscar as doing everything to win. Play defense, play team ball, hit huge shots.

My guys would die to win. Every single guy there left it on the court on both ends with the singular goal of winning in mind.
 
Rodman was a great rebounder, and good at getting into people's heads, no doubt. But offensively, he was just about useless, only one season averaging even double figures - 11.6 in his 2nd year. And that went DOWN in the playoffs.

Chauncey Billups was not as on dimensional a player as Rodman, but he couldn't hang with Oscar on either end of the floor. While we don't have steals stats for most of Big O's career, his final year, he averaged 1.1 SPG - while Chancey only averaged 1 SPG for his whole career. Anecdotally, Oscar may have been as proficient a thief as anyone. And, let's not forget, his season of 30.8/12.5/11.4.

Kobe over Pistol, yeah, of course, altho I suspect that the 3 pt line would have evened it up a bit. And the gap between Larry Bird and Iceman is smaller than most probably think. But the real battle here is between the centers, and, honestly, it's a tough one. Kareem is bigger and faster and a better offensive player, but Russell revolutionized the game with his defense. Kareem is no slouch in the defensive arena, either, - 5 time 1st team all defensive, 6 time 2nd team, 3rd all time total blocks.

But, again, my 2nd team is full of all-defensive players, so if Kobe of Larry start heating up, just put Squid or AK47 in.
 
Wow. Tied. So, on to the tiebreaker:

In the event of a tie, the team with the most votes from the other participants will win the tie-breaker.
Click to expand...

Members who voted for 'Gandalfe'
Members who voted for 'Wes Mantooth'
So, it appears I won.

Great series, Wes, it seriously came down to AK47 blocking Kobe's basket, flipping it over to Pistol who dashed down the court and no-looked it to Kareem for the sky-hook at the buzzer of game 7.
 
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