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2020 Presidential election

AlaskanAssassin said:
I can't tell if you're being condescending or not.

Obama's deficits (additions to the Nation Debt) were between $1.3 and $1.4 Trillion each year between 2009 and 2011. No president in history has had this high of a deficit in any single year (although Trump is sure trying).

https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

When the Nation debt goes from $10.626 Trillion to $19.9 Trillion over an 8-year period, you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone (provided they can do arithmetic) that Obama "lowered the deficit".
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What was going on with the economy between 2007-2008?

Was Obama only President between 2009-2011? Why don’t you look at the entire presidency?

Why do I get the impression you’re making another bad faith argument here?
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
I can't tell if you're being condescending or not.

Obama's deficits (additions to the Nation Debt) were between $1.3 and $1.4 Trillion each year between 2009 and 2011. No president in history has had this high of a deficit in any single year (although Trump is sure trying).

https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

When the Nation debt goes from $10.626 Trillion to $19.9 Trillion over an 8-year period, you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone (provided they can do arithmetic) that Obama "lowered the deficit".
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It is worth noting that Obama inherited an economy in a tailspin, hence the crazy deficit numbers. Trump on the other hand has no such excuse.
 
SCS said:
I think Bernie Sanders is the only one with a real chance of beating Trump. Trump got elected in large part because the majority of people were longing for an anti-establishment candidate to get into the white house and shake up the political status quo. I get the feeling that is still what the majority of people want. Bernie is the one major Democrat contender who has that anti-establishment edge to him. He's got some very "out there" type of ideas just like Trump. He's got a strong group of rabid supporters too. Young people seem to attach to his ideas well. Biden and Warren are both viewed as establishment, "the old guard".

Realistically though, Trump is probably going to get re-elected. Incumbents almost always win re-election. The only way he might lose is if the economy goes downhill or he gets us into an unwanted war.
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Aside from her age I'm not sure what about Warren makes her part of the "old guard."
 
Zombie said:
Aside from her age I'm not sure what about Warren makes her part of the "old guard."
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Additionally, sanders isn’t expanding his tent. While Warren appears to be expanding hers. Warren gives you progressivism with much more charisma and electability. Sanders from an electability standpoint, is severely limited. Outside of white college men, which demographic really likes him?
 
DasJazz said:
I am still trying to find the racist part of his tweet. Telling people to go fix the problems where you come from and then come back and show us how is not racist.
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Good thing we have some white ignoramus to tell us what people of color hear from bigots. How would we know otherwise?
 
The Thriller said:
What was going on with the economy between 2007-2008?

Was Obama only President between 2009-2011? Why don’t you look at the entire presidency?

Why do I get the impression you’re making another bad faith argument here?
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Not making a bad faith argument at all. I recognize the circumstances that Obama was put into. My comments were not meant to be a knock on him. If you want to look at the entire presidency:

Based on the figures in the source I provided, Bush on average ran a $251 Billion deficit during his 8-year term, and his total Nation Debt increase was $4.3 Trillion. Obama's deficits averaged $910 Billion, and he added $9.5 Trillion to the deficit.

When you say "The last two Democratic administrations have lowered the deficit", I think that's being intellectually dishonest without providing context to how you are measuring that.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
Not making a bad faith argument at all. I recognize the circumstances that Obama was put into. My comments were not meant to be a knock on him. If you want to look at the entire presidency:

Based on the figures in the source I provided, Bush on average ran a $251 Billion deficit during his 8-year term, and his total Nation Debt increase was $4.3 Trillion. Obama's deficits averaged $910 Billion, and he added $9.5 Trillion to the deficit.

When you say "The last two Democratic administrations have lowered the deficit", I think that's being intellectually dishonest without providing context to how you are measuring that.
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Averages? I’ve never heard of anyone using that metric. And for good reason, an avg of 8 years makes years where deficit spending must increase dramatically wars, recessions, etc skew the data.

For sake of comparing apples to apples, can we please just compare deficits? By comparing deficits and the national debt you make this really a stupid argument. As long as the deficit ends up with a net -$1.00, the debt will increase.

For sake of good faith arguments and the most accurate estimate of how each president handled the deficit, Why don’t you post the deficits of each president? I’ll settle for Bush II, Obama, and Trump. So basically, 2001-2018.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
No argument there. Trump suggesting that he can "balance the budget fairly quickly" was clearly a ruse.
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What about health care reform that would give people universal coverage and lower costs?

What about Mexico paying for his wall?

What about Middle East peace?

You could put “a ruse” for nearly all of his campaign promises.
 
The Thriller said:
Averages? I’ve never heard of anyone using that metric. And for good reason, an avg of 8 years makes years where deficit spending must increase dramatically wars, recessions, etc skew the data.

For sake of comparing apples to apples, can we please just compare deficits? By comparing deficits and the national debt you make this really a stupid argument. As long as the deficit ends up with a net -$1.00, the debt will increase.

For sake of good faith arguments and the most accurate estimate of how each president handled the deficit, Why don’t you post the deficits of each president? I’ll settle for Bush II, Obama, and Trump. So basically, 2001-2018.
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The reason to use both "Deficits" and "Increases to the National Debt" is because they are not exactly the same thing. A deficit, as reported by GAS (Governmental Accounting Standards) does not account for intergovernmental borrowing (from Social Security). So the National Debt often increases faster than the reported deficits. I'm fine with whichever metric you feel is most applicable. To me, the actual additions to Debt are the best metric. Debt is debt.

Here are the totals for each president. Much of Trump's are estimated because only his 2017 numbers are final. Takes a long time to audit a government. I just included his numbers through 2019.

Bush's Total (8-year) deficits: $2.0 T
Bush's Total (8-year) additions to debt: $4.4 T

Obama's Total (8-year) deficits: $7.3 T
Obama's Total (8-year) additions to debt: $9.5 T

Trump's Total (3-Year Estimated) deficits: $2.5T
Trump's Total (3-Year Estimated) additions to debt: $3.2T

If the current establishment keeps spending the way it is, Trump's additions to the debt will likely meet or exceed what Obama did.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
The reason to use both "Deficits" and "Increases to the National Debt" is because they are not exactly the same thing. A deficit, as reported by GAS (Governmental Accounting Standards) does not account for intergovernmental borrowing (from Social Security). So the National Debt often increases faster than the reported deficits. I'm fine with whichever metric you feel is most applicable. To me, the actual additions to Debt are the best metric. Debt is debt.

Here are the totals for each president. Much of Trump's are estimated because only his 2017 numbers are final. Takes a long time to audit a government. I just included his numbers through 2019.

Bush's Total (8-year) deficits: $2.0 T
Bush's Total (8-year) additions to debt: $4.4 T

Obama's Total (8-year) deficits: $7.3 T
Obama's Total (8-year) additions to debt: $9.5 T

Trump's Total (3-Year Estimated) deficits: $2.5T
Trump's Total (3-Year Estimated) additions to debt: $3.2T

If the current establishment keeps spending the way it is, Trump's additions to the debt will likely meet or exceed what Obama did.
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For the third time, do it by year.

Why do you keep avoiding this? For someone who claims to not be making a bad faith argument, you’re doing everything possible to make one.
 
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