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2020 Presidential election

Zombie said:
I just love this new criticism of universal healthcare causing too many people to have access to healthcare. You can tell they are so close to getting it, and then take a left turn at the last second.
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Yet you can't even explain how to pay the bill.
 
I'm going to go buy a Ferrari. I'm 100,000 in debt already, I can't even afford my current car, and I have no clue how I'm going to pay for it. I'll just figure it out later.

If Warren's plan was an average American.
 
JazzyFresh said:
Yes but they are paying for it. If not then they are paying creditors.
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Or, they are using government programs for the uninsured and lightly insured, to get SLIDES on the amount due that 330B medical providers are required to offer the indigent.

I mean, if you really want to know about how low-income people are currently being covered medically, I can talk for days on that. I worked at Southern Illinois Healthcare Foundation for over 8 years. We can talk about same-day appointments, effectiveness of treatment, government reporting, cost of care, etc. How far in the weeds do you really want to go?
 
JazzyFresh said:
I'm going to go buy a Ferrari. I'm 100,000 in debt already, I can't even afford my current car, and I have no clue how I'm going to pay for it. I'll just figure it out later.

If Warren's plan was an average American.
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The Ferrari is being bought, regardless. It's just a question of the path the money takes.
 
JazzyFresh said:
Yet you can't even explain how to pay the bill.
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I and others have explained it, multiple times. Warren unveiled her plan with a breakdown of how to pay for it, shifting employer healthcare costs into taxes, higher taxes on the wealthy, negotiating with pharma companies on costs, lower administrative costs, etc.

The how will you pay for it argument is silly because we currently pay more than any other developed country for our healthcare and it's putting millions of families into bankruptcy. Weird how the question of how we are supposed to maintain our current costs for healthcare isn't considered.
 
Zombie said:
I and others have explained it, multiple times. Warren unveiled her plan with a breakdown of how to pay for it, shifting employer healthcare costs into taxes, higher taxes on the wealthy, negotiating with pharma companies on costs, lower administrative costs, etc.

The how will you pay for it argument is silly because we currently pay more than any other developed country for our healthcare and it's putting millions of families into bankruptcy. Weird how the question of how we are supposed to maintain our current costs for healthcare isn't considered.
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This is nothing more than a theory. Nothing. Its like saying I'm going to pay for that Ferrari by panhandling. So someone ask "how much will you make panhandling" like you I'd be saying "I don't know". You really don't know how it's going to be paid for

We all want that Ferrari. But if we don't understand our basic budget, then how do we know we can afford it? Your acting like this is some profound question when it's pretty damn straight forward. Where is this 52 trillion coming from? Don't tell me panhandling, tell me the numbers. That's not asking a lot.
 
JazzyFresh said:
This is nothing more than a theory. Nothing. Its like saying I'm going to pay for that Ferrari by panhandling. So someone ask "how much will you make panhandling" like you I'd be saying "I don't know". You really don't know how it's going to be paid for

We all want that Ferrari. But if we don't understand our basic budget, then how do we know we can afford it? Your acting like this is some profound question when it's pretty damn straight forward. Where is this 52 trillion coming from? Don't tell me panhandling, tell me the numbers. That's not asking a lot.
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Hey ****wad, I pointed you in the direction of the numbers. Go to Warren's website if you want them.

I'm not the author of the bill, or a policy expert who's job it is to explain things to people who are actively trying not to understand them.
 
Zombie said:
Hey ****wad, I pointed you in the direction of the numbers. Go to Warren's website if you want them.

I'm not the author of the bill, or a policy expert who's job it is to explain things to people who are actively trying not to understand them.
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Getting to you ain't I? You have no clue what you're voting for. Cheers.
 
JazzyFresh said:
Getting to you ain't I? You have no clue what you're voting for. Cheers.
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Sure, you have succeeded yet again at being annoying. Congratulations I guess.

Out of curiosity since I assume you will not be voting for a candidate who supports M4A, why don't you describe to me how we are going to pay for exploding healthcare costs over the next ten years? How many people will die for lack of care? How many homes will be lost to medically induced bankruptcy? How many people will be rationing insulin they can't afford? At what rate will our life expentancy continue to decline? How many people will lose their insurance thanks to losing their jobs?

I demand numbers! Data! Anything less will be an admission by you that you don't know what you're talking about, and are voting for policies you are ignorant of.
 
JazzyFresh said:
We pay 3.2 trillion right now. So 32 trillion over 10 years. Warren's plan is 52 million. One number is not like the other. Both are terrible.
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We paid 3.5T in 2017. That number has gone up as our population has both increased and aged. It's going to keep going up as our population continues to increase and age, estimated to read 6T by 2027. The 52 trillion is going to be spent regardless of which health care plan we use, in fact, by current projections it will be 55T for 2021 through 2030. Warren's saving us 3T, using your number.
 
Zombie said:
Sure, you have succeeded yet again at being annoying. Congratulations I guess.

Out of curiosity since I assume you will not be voting for a candidate who supports M4A, why don't you describe to me how we are going to pay for exploding healthcare costs over the next ten years? How many people will die for lack of care? How many homes will be lost to medically induced bankruptcy? At what rate will our life expentancy continue to decline? How many people will lose their insurance thanks to losing their jobs?

I demand numbers! Data! Anything less will be an admission by you that you don't know what you're talking about, and are voting for policies you are ignorant of.
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I am ignorant of it. I have no problem admitting it. So are you though. You cant even explain basic numbers. I could sit and make up fairy tale scenarios like Warren but I wouldn't do that unless I knew where my 52 trillion was coming from, how long wait times will be, will I have to put 2 million people out of work, how does that effect people, where are we finding doctors?

I mean duh dude. Kind of important...
 
One Brow said:
As a long-time liberal, my opinions of the mainstream press have long been that they are far too accommodating of clearly false conservative talking points and too willing to advance the conservative narrative without in an attempt to seem unbiased, especially with regard to the intersections of politics and science or human rights. The press were cheerleaders for Bush's invasions, for the equating of capitalism and freedom, and many other ills.

By contrast, my impression of the conservative complaints regarding the press is that when conservatives are not allowed to dominate the conversation, they feel oppressed.
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You are so far left that you don't even comprehend what centrism is. You and I have long ago discovered that we're almost never going to agree on anything politically, but I will concede the point that the media did cheerlead the Bush's invasions initially. They remain stunningly silent on the disasters that have been going on for decades and which are only gaining steam in dozens of liberal strongholds like San Francisco, LA and Chicago.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
You are so far left that you don't even comprehend what centrism is.
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Yes, all the far-right conservatives are very convinced that they are the real centrists.

Here's a hint: if you think Obama was liberal, you don't understand what centrism is.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
You and I have long ago discovered that we're almost never going to agree on anything politically, but I will concede the point that the media did cheerlead the Bush's invasions initially. They remain stunningly silent on the disasters that have been going on for decades and which are only gaining steam in dozens of liberal strongholds like San Francisco, LA and Chicago.
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They remain silent, or present false narratives, on many things. However, it's nice to see us united in our mutual distrust of the press. :)
 
One Brow said:
We paid 3.5T in 2017. That number has gone up as our population has both increased and aged. It's going to keep going up as our population continues to increase and age, estimated to read 6T by 2027. The 52 trillion is going to be spent regardless of which health care plan we use.
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Holy ****!!! Numbers!!!!! So won't the 52 trillion go up just as fast? What's keeping those numbers stagnant? What happens once companies start losing billions in taxes and move overseas? If they remain here losing money who do you think it's footing the bill? I work for a major corporation and just went to a business conference, once you start taxing them to Oblivion prices are going to have to go up to get back those resources. So on top of getting taxed 30-45% according to places like Canada you are now paying more for basic items.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
You are so far left that you don't even comprehend what centrism is. You and I have long ago discovered that we're almost never going to agree on anything politically, but I will concede the point that the media did cheerlead the Bush's invasions initially. They remain stunningly silent on the disasters that have been going on for decades and which are only gaining steam in dozens of liberal strongholds like San Francisco, LA and Chicago.
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lol

JazzyFresh said:
You cant even explain basic numbers.
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Weren't you offered this yesterday? And couldn't offer any rebuttle beyond "no you"?
 
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