2020 Presidential election

[Zombie]

I am ignorant of it. I have no problem admitting it. So are you though. You cant even explain basic numbers. I could sit and make up fairy tale scenarios like Warren but I wouldn't do that unless I knew where my 52 trillion was coming from, how long wait times will be, will I have to put 2 million people out of work, how does that effect people, where are we finding doctors?

I mean duh dude. Kind of important...

I think we're done here. You're holding people up to higher standards than you are yourself. If you can't justify your support for the status quo then you don't get to harrangue people for their own preffered policy positions.

 

[JazzyFresh]

"The mathematical gymnastics in this plan are all geared towards hiding a simple truth from voters: it’s impossible to pay for Medicare for All without middle class tax increases,” the Biden campaign declared in a statement

 

[JazzyFresh]

I think we're done here. You're holding people up to higher standards than you are yourself. If you can't justify your support for the status quo then you don't get to harrangue people for their own preffered policy positions.

Hey give me a plan that makes economical sense without her having to lie about the Middle Class and I'm down. Her plan sounds amazing but it's just not feasible. I've asked you to explain it to me in numbers but you can't. Yes we are done and talking in circles.

 

[JazzyFresh]

.

I do want to say thanks. While we got at each other's throats I feel conversations like this are healthy as long as it's civil. I understand a lot of where your coming from but I disagree that it's doable. I'll leave it at that.

 

[The Thriller]

No one is discussion importing the British model. Why do you repeat lies so freely and so often?

The British system incorporates doctors and hospitals as public employees. Patients pay for their health care through taxes. It’s as “socialized” as a system can get. It provides better outcomes than the American system at a fraction of the GDP.

The Canadian system is more similar to ours than the British system. The primary difference being that doctors and hospitals remain privatized and patients in the entire country pay into one health insurance plan, Medicare. Medicare then reimburses Canadian doctors and hospitals. Again, it too providers better outcomes at a fraction of the GDP.

Those who conflate the two show their ignorance of the subject as conflating the two would be like comparing the early Spurs championship teams with the later Spurs championship teams and claiming that they played with the exact same style.

Wait times is some of the easier issues to address. Big countries like the United States are more adept to incentivize their Health care industry to encourage more young people to enter health care.

more difficult issues are how to address the doctor shortage in rural areas and how to keep costs (especially big pharm) under control? And how to continue to deliver health care when the country’s demographics become older? To stress out over wait times for specialists just seems like low hanging fruit to me. Literally every system can show longer wait times depending on the issue and location. Besides, what is characterized as “long” for a non-emergency? One day? A week? A month? When I had my tonsils taken out, I had to wait nearly 3 months. Is that long? What should the wait time be? What harm was done by me waiting 3 months? I got I guess one extra sore throat in between the time I scheduled the operation and had it done. Does that qualify as harm? Would I have not gotten sick with a sore throat had the doctor been able to schedule me in the week I came to see him?

If we’re talking about health care systems, why doesn’t anyone talk about the Bismarck system, which is the most similar of all to ours? The transition to this system would be the easiest. Private health care providers and Insurance companies still exist, the primary difference being that these companies are nonprofit.

 

[Zombie]

Hey give me a plan that makes economical sense without her having to lie about the Middle Class and I'm down. Her plan sounds amazing but it's just not feasible. I've asked you to explain it to me in numbers but you can't. Yes we are done and talking in circles.

Sure I will as soon and you explain how the current system makes economic sense. I don't have to justify anything to you if you are unwilling to do the same. If you can't describe how the current system is more feasible, how can I take seriously your claim that Warren's isn't?

 

[JazzyFresh]

Tulsi is Russia, yeah spare me.

 

[JazzyFresh]

Sure I will as soon and you explain how the current system makes economic sense. I don't have to justify anything to you if you are unwilling to do the same. If you can't describe how the current system is more feasible, how can I take seriously your claim that Warren's isn't?

It doesn't. I'm just against replacing trash with trash just because. I'm all ears for something that makes sense but I'm agreeing more and more with Biden each day. Not on healthcare but him calling a spade a spade. If only he could remember yesterday.

In all honesty I love my plan that's selfish but feasible enough.

 

[One Brow]

Holy ****!!! Numbers!!!!! So won't the 52 trillion go up just as fast?

It already accounts for the projected price increases, which is why it is 52T.

What's keeping those numbers stagnant?

The projections change about once a year.

What happens once companies start losing billions in taxes and move overseas?

Most of the ones that can, have.

So on top of getting taxed 30-45% according to places like Canada you are now paying more for basic items.

We're paying the 52T+, either way.

 

[silesian]

Yes but they are paying for it. If not then they are paying creditors. My point was that this would give free reign to go see the doctor whenever.

Are you sure insured patients are paying more than medicare patients for a frivolous visit?

Both have copays and both can deny payment

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that medicare patients have more frequent frivolous physician visits?

 

[fishonjazz]

Sure, you have succeeded yet again at being annoying. Congratulations I guess.

Out of curiosity since I assume you will not be voting for a candidate who supports M4A, why don't you describe to me how we are going to pay for exploding healthcare costs over the next ten years? How many people will die for lack of care? How many homes will be lost to medically induced bankruptcy? How many people will be rationing insulin they can't afford? At what rate will our life expentancy continue to decline? How many people will lose their insurance thanks to losing their jobs?

I demand numbers! Data! Anything less will be an admission by you that you don't know what you're talking about, and are voting for policies you are ignorant of.

Well done.
That's a jazzy post to the T

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[fishonjazz]

Hey give me a plan that makes economical sense without her having to lie about the Middle Class and I'm down. Her plan sounds amazing but it's just not feasible. I've asked you to explain it to me in numbers but you can't. Yes we are done and talking in circles.

You give me a plan that makes economical sense from your candidate.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[JazzyFresh]

Are you sure insured patients are paying more than medicare patients for a frivolous visit?

Both have copays and both can deny payment

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that medicare patients have more frequent frivolous physician visits?

While I should just answer like everyone has here and not answer at all, no I don't. I'm speaking from my personal theory and experience. If someone wants to prove me wrong I'm all ears. I don't think it's a reach to think 44+ million more uninsured people will go see the doctor if they were insured. Its pretty much common sense in my eyes.

Now again I'm not saying having more people go see a doctor is a bad thing, I'm talking about overloadng doctors worse than they already are.

 

[JazzyFresh]

You give me a plan that makes economical sense from your candidate.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

******** you all expect me to answer your **** when you can't answer mine.

But unlike you all I will answer. Nobody right now. Nobody right now is offering a plan that economically makes sense. Biden at least has the audacity to call Warren's plan for the farce that it is but his plan is just as questionable. Money out of thin air!!! No Republican has a clue what to do either. Unlike you guys I'm not going to go for a plan just because it makes me feel happy. Id love nothing more than a plan that's well though out and planned. 52 trillion, lying about taxing the middle class, and telling people the rich will pay for everything is flat out stupid. I'm sorry but it is.

 

[silesian]

. I don't think it's a reach to think more people will go see the doctor if they were insured. Its pretty much common sense in my eyes.

I get it and agree. I thought you were saying more people would see a doctor if they are on medicare for all versus their current insurance.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Yes, all the far-right conservatives are very convinced that they are the real centrists.

Here's a hint: if you think Obama was liberal, you don't understand what centrism is.



They remain silent, or present false narratives, on many things. However, it's nice to see us united in our mutual distrust of the press.

Obama had the farthest left voting record of all the 2008 Democratic primary candidates, but you see him as a centrist. If I ever have a set of goalposts that I need moved I guess I now know I should give you a call.

 

[One Brow]

Obama had the farthest left voting record of all the 2008 Democratic primary candidates, but you see him as a centrist.

I'm talking about him as a President. I didn't pay attention to his voting record in the Senate. The ACA was a slight re-design of a Republican plan pushed heavily by health insurance companies, the Treasury secretaries and Fed appointees were all Wall-Street-approved, military spending increased, etc. Do you think he was a liberal President, and if so, why?

As he was representing reliably left-voting Illinois, you would expect his votes to be to the left. Considering his main competitors were Clinton, Edwards, Richardson, and Biden, it's not hard to be to the left of that group.

 

[Zombie]

Obama had the farthest left voting record of all the 2008 Democratic primary candidates, but you see him as a centrist. If I ever have a set of goalposts that I need moved I guess I now know I should give you a call.

He wasn't more left wing than Kucinich, or Gravel, or arguably Edwards.

 

[One Brow]

But unlike you all I will answer. Nobody right now. Nobody right now is offering a plan that economically makes sense.

https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/paying-for-m4a

Biden at least has the audacity to call Warren's plan for the farce that it is but his plan is just as questionable.

More so, because Warren has an actual plan based on actual expert analysis.

 

[One Brow]

He wasn't more left wing than Kucinich, or Gravel, or arguably Edwards.

I don't know much about the site, but according to govtrack.us, Obama was more liberal in Congress.