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2021 NBA Draft Preview (new thread)

NUMBERICA said:
I’m saying nothing about jom whose points I only rarely subscribe. I am under no illusion that you can have perfect depth of perfect bodies and perfect skill sets.

But the lack of depth (or breadth) perhaps was a fundamental component of the collapse in games 5 and six since they could not answer small ball at all. Some of this is for sure on Quin.
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OK. I see. I thought it was an attempt to validate jom's viewpoint since:

a) it was a response directly to a post that disputed jom's point
b) jom's point was directly in reponse to another poster who advocated getting as many long athletes (above seemingly all else) as possible for the Jazz's pick(s)

Apologies for my error.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Butler has been cleared by the NBA. Hopefully his stock is down enough we can snag him. I think he’s going to be solid from day one.
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What role would he play for us? I do like his play and maybe he's so good that it doesn't matter, but he would be another short(ish) guard and he doesn't have plus length. So he doesn't fit our ideal pairing next to Donovan. Would you envision him long-term as a 3rd-guard option?

(And can you imagine how many heads would explode we take the Baylor player after DL is gone, especially if he doesn't pan out?)
 
idiot said:
What role would he play for us? I do like his play and maybe he's so good that it doesn't matter, but he would be another short(ish) guard and he doesn't have plus length. So he doesn't fit our ideal pairing next to Donovan. Would you envision him long-term as a 3rd-guard option?

(And can you imagine how many heads would explode we take the Baylor player after DL is gone, especially if he doesn't pan out?)
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I think I’d kick the tires and see what’s out there for JC (assuming Mike is back). He’s not big but he’s not tiny and he’s a really good defender. He’s a combo guard and I think fits well with Don. I envision him as a great third guard on a title team that can start at either spot if there is an injury. They are different players but I think he could be similarly effective as Malcolm Brogdon.

I just remember watching Baylor to see how Mitchell was as a prospect and always coming away impressed with Butler.
 
Butler is probably the most George Hill of the George Hill comps I've come up with. He should be solid though not spectacular. I tend to think of him as someone who runs your 2nd unit, but he should be able to play minutes next to Donovan.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Butler is probably the most George Hill of the George Hill comps I've come up with. He should be solid though not spectacular. I tend to think of him as someone who runs your 2nd unit, but he should be able to play minutes next to Donovan.
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He doesn’t have that kinda length is my worry. I think he might trend more towards offball. I think he could be somewhere between a rich mans Langston Galloway a smaller version of Malcolm Brogdon. It’s not very sexy but I think he has a very good chance to realize his potential. I can see the George Hill comp too… Butler is a guy with a few great nba skills and the rest is solid too… I just have a hard time seeing how he fails to be a rotation level nba player. The reports on the kid are he is a high character guy and a worker… we know he’s a winner too.
 
idiot said:
Can't go with you on this one. By jom2003's logic, which he's been remarkably (and admirably) consistent with as long as I can remember him commenting here, the only players we should go after are superior athletes for their position, preferably young and long, basically the Orlando Magic model. Someone like Ingles would surely not qualify under his vision, and his poor playoffs the last couple years would be evidence that we held onto him for 2-3 years too long. Not sure why you're eager to validate his thought process.

(If I'm misunderstanding jom2003's philosophy, I'm open to correction.)
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that's not the Orlando Magic model. Not even close. Or how do you explain their best player Vucevic, who is anything but a super athlete and the very reason that they couldn't go past the first round. It's more of the 2020 Lakers model, or the 2021 Bucks upon the acquisition of Holiday.
 
jom2003 said:
that's not the Orlando Magic model. Not even close. Or how do you explain their best player Vucevic, who is anything but a super athlete and the very reason that they couldn't go past the first round. It's more of the 2020 Lakers model, or the 2021 Bucks upon the acquisition of Holiday.
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Bucks model became Orlando model when John Hammond went from Milwaukee to Orlando, if I remember correctly. Vucevic was already there before Hammond arrived. This year they finally found a way to trade him.

If you pay attention to the draft every year since Hammond arrived, commentators all talk about how the Magic are seeking long athletes as their "type."

See this article, for example.
 
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George Hill is the type of guy the Jazz need to find with their pick. He stayed in college four years and came out of that pro basketball hotbed IUPUI and was drafted by Spurs with the 26th pick in 2008 behind Boom Bitches. Pop loved him when he played for the Spurs.
 
idiot said:
Bucks model became Orlando model when John Hammond went from Milwaukee to Orlando, if I remember correctly. Vucevic was already there before Hammond arrived. This year they finally found a way to trade him.

If you pay attention to the draft every year since Hammond arrived, commentators all talk about how the Magic are seeking long athletes as their "type."
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Those are good types to have but some will be Giannis’ and some Mo Bamba’s
 
homeytennis said:
George Hill is the type of guy the Jazz need to find with their pick. He stayed in college four years and came out of that pro basketball hotbed IUPUI and was drafted by Spurs with the 26th pick in 2008 behind Boom Bitches. Pop loved him when he played for the Spurs.
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They need that but they could also use a high upside project. I think the project has to be playable though… at least 8 minutes a night for development purposes. Would love a guy like JT Thor but actually give him 8 minutes a night to season him and show his potential.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
They need that but they could also use a high upside project. I think the project has to be playable though… at least 8 minutes a night for development purposes. Would love a guy like JT Thor but actually give him 8 minutes a night to season him and show his potential.
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Jazz need some size/athleticism at the wing. Royce is a bit small, and Joe/Bojan are a bit slow. Actually, Garuba would be great for the Jazz if they can teach him to hit corner 3s.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
They need that but they could also use a high upside project. I think the project has to be playable though… at least 8 minutes a night for development purposes. Would love a guy like JT Thor but actually give him 8 minutes a night to season him and show his potential.
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There are guys out there like a couple of guys the Bucks have on their bench or Garrison Matthews for the Wiz they found as undrafted free agent in some out of the way college league. Our scouts need to find them.
 
idiot said:
Bucks model became Orlando model when John Hammond went from Milwaukee to Orlando, if I remember correctly. Vucevic was already there before Hammond arrived. This year they finally found a way to trade him.

If you pay attention to the draft every year since Hammond arrived, commentators all talk about how the Magic are seeking long athletes as their "type."

See this article, for example.
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yeah, but that doesn't take away my argument. when your very best player goes directly against the principle in which you were trying to shape your team, it wouldn't work. The Orlando model failed because they were restricted with Vuce, not because it was a bad model.
 
jom2003 said:
yeah, but that doesn't take away my argument. when your very best player goes directly against the principle in which you were trying to shape your team, it wouldn't work. The Orlando model failed because they were restricted with Vuce, not because it was a bad model.
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What? Vuce is proof-positive that their strategy is garbage: he was their best player by a lot for a long time even though he wasn’t one of these blue-chippers that suck at playing basketball.

It’s wild to me how underrated actually being good at the sport is. Orlando’s failures were entirely predictable because amassing dudes that lack basic skills compounds on itself (all the athleticism in the world doesn’t matter if the paint is packed and hardly anybody is good at moving the ball).
 
NUMBERICA said:
What? Vuce is proof-positive that their strategy is garbage: he was their best player by a lot for a long time even though he wasn’t one of these blue-chippers that suck at playing basketball.

It’s wild to me how underrated actually being good at the sport is. Orlando’s failures were entirely predictable because amassing dudes that lack basic skills compounds on itself (all the athleticism in the world doesn’t matter if the paint is packed and hardly anybody is good at moving the ball).
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Orlando model was a mistake because they should either trade Vuce or not going with that model at all. Vuce is a great player don't get me wrong. But he definitely has his own limitations that are exploitable in playoffs. Just look at his numbers against raptors in 2019 series.

Plus I'm not sure there's much to say about magic failure from Jazz standpoint. They failed and couldn't get out of the first round. Yes. But Jazz didn't do that much better themselves and couldn't get out of the second round. Looking at Magic's failure is not going to make us feel all that much better about ourselves.
 
Bucks just took a 3-2 lead in the NBA finals BTW. No matter what the final results are, it's fair to say the Bucks model is a success.
 
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