seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
he's the 6th youngest player in the draft. the only guys who are younger are gg, whitehead, naji, clowney and coulibaly. only gg is significantly younger. he's within a month or two of those other guys.
2023 NBA Draft Megathread
- Thread starter Ferguson_Mellochill
- Start date
I would do that. If we could walk away with Ausar at 6 and Henricks at 9, I would be absolutely thrilled.
Finishing my highlights watching of the top 30 today...
23. Bobi Klintman - OK... intrigued. VERY! Seems to have some ball skills that are good for a 6'10" big? Attacks closeouts with the dribble, and gets to the rim seamlessly... very fluid mover for size. Handle is not advanced, but good enough for slashing and attacking closeouts... good enough for simple pull up jumpers... the shot looks good. Looking at his stats now... Hm... this is weird. How does he only score 10 points per 40 mins? Something is fishy. Shooting numbers look good... might translate. 2pFG% looks horrible for a big. Why? Length/size intriguing for defensive potential?
24. Bilal Coulibaly - long, but somewhat skinny wing... slasher. Effortless athleticism. Has some creative finishes around the rim... but he will need to get stronger at the NBA level or he will get pummelled like Dante did. Flashes of handle... can he develop it so he can be an on-ball wing? Right now doesn't seem to have much of an off-the-dribble game... or pull up game? Seems to get to the rim though... this is nice. Shot looks OK... numbers are OK too... I am worried when young players are not given the chance to initiate offense even if they are playing among men, but something that immediately strikes me from his stats profile - he is actually efficient. He's playing at a high level in Europe against men, and even though he's not relied to create offense ... he is efficient with what he's relied to do. I think I'd have him higher than 24... top 20 for sure.
25. Sidy Cissoko - Big, long wing... has some explosive athleticism... passing? Ok I didn't expect that... looks like he's a willing and sometimes creative passer. His shot doesn't look great on the boxscore... He's interesting, flashes handle too, but mainly uses it to get to the rim. Doesn't rebound as much as I'd like for his size... I don't like his shot... but if you think you can coach him up to shoot at NBA average level... he's very intriguing to me ... How's his defense? I would guess there is some potential there because of athleticism and length...
26. Rayan Rupert - tall wing... not very explosive... seems like mainly below the rim finisher despite his size and length... his shot actually looks good to me but the 3p% is 31%... not good... he attacks the rim, but his 2pFG% makes me think the highlights I'm seeing are bad representation of his success in the paint. He doesn't seem really athletic to me, maybe why his efficiency from 2p is so bad. Honestly... not super interested in him ... I don't think...
27. Jett Howard - interesting. Is his height real(6'8"?). He doesn't look as big to me. OK, he seems to have some off-the-bounce game here... good handle, ability to score in the midrange and from 3. Shot looks good, both on the catch and off-dribble. Why is he ranked 27? He looks like he should be higher. Doesn't seem like a high-flyer. Is his defense bad? Stocks seem low... I guess that's why he's ranked this low?
28. Colby Jones - good size for a guard... doesn't seem particularly explosive, below the rim athlete. A lot of things in his highlights look solid, but nothing jumps at you... might be a solid rotational player, not sure about higher ceiling...
29. Maxwell Lewis - big/long wing. Shows some explosive verticality off two feet. Has good finishes with both hands at the rim. The shot looks solid. I think it will translate. Has some mid-range game(pull ups, turn around jumpers, etc). Rebounds well... willing passer. Defensive metrics not great...
30. Noah Clowney - 4/5? smallball 5? good movement for his size... has some athletic ability. Attacks close outs and attacks the rim... very good rebounder it seems. Shot looks OK(but 3p% and FT% don't suggest he will be a shooter in the NBA)... but they let him shoot over 3 a game. Interesting... Seems to have some defensive ability as a rim protector and overall defender.
What did I get wrong? Where did I miss context?
23. Bobi Klintman - OK... intrigued. VERY! Seems to have some ball skills that are good for a 6'10" big? Attacks closeouts with the dribble, and gets to the rim seamlessly... very fluid mover for size. Handle is not advanced, but good enough for slashing and attacking closeouts... good enough for simple pull up jumpers... the shot looks good. Looking at his stats now... Hm... this is weird. How does he only score 10 points per 40 mins? Something is fishy. Shooting numbers look good... might translate. 2pFG% looks horrible for a big. Why? Length/size intriguing for defensive potential?
24. Bilal Coulibaly - long, but somewhat skinny wing... slasher. Effortless athleticism. Has some creative finishes around the rim... but he will need to get stronger at the NBA level or he will get pummelled like Dante did. Flashes of handle... can he develop it so he can be an on-ball wing? Right now doesn't seem to have much of an off-the-dribble game... or pull up game? Seems to get to the rim though... this is nice. Shot looks OK... numbers are OK too... I am worried when young players are not given the chance to initiate offense even if they are playing among men, but something that immediately strikes me from his stats profile - he is actually efficient. He's playing at a high level in Europe against men, and even though he's not relied to create offense ... he is efficient with what he's relied to do. I think I'd have him higher than 24... top 20 for sure.
25. Sidy Cissoko - Big, long wing... has some explosive athleticism... passing? Ok I didn't expect that... looks like he's a willing and sometimes creative passer. His shot doesn't look great on the boxscore... He's interesting, flashes handle too, but mainly uses it to get to the rim. Doesn't rebound as much as I'd like for his size... I don't like his shot... but if you think you can coach him up to shoot at NBA average level... he's very intriguing to me ... How's his defense? I would guess there is some potential there because of athleticism and length...
26. Rayan Rupert - tall wing... not very explosive... seems like mainly below the rim finisher despite his size and length... his shot actually looks good to me but the 3p% is 31%... not good... he attacks the rim, but his 2pFG% makes me think the highlights I'm seeing are bad representation of his success in the paint. He doesn't seem really athletic to me, maybe why his efficiency from 2p is so bad. Honestly... not super interested in him ... I don't think...
27. Jett Howard - interesting. Is his height real(6'8"?). He doesn't look as big to me. OK, he seems to have some off-the-bounce game here... good handle, ability to score in the midrange and from 3. Shot looks good, both on the catch and off-dribble. Why is he ranked 27? He looks like he should be higher. Doesn't seem like a high-flyer. Is his defense bad? Stocks seem low... I guess that's why he's ranked this low?
28. Colby Jones - good size for a guard... doesn't seem particularly explosive, below the rim athlete. A lot of things in his highlights look solid, but nothing jumps at you... might be a solid rotational player, not sure about higher ceiling...
29. Maxwell Lewis - big/long wing. Shows some explosive verticality off two feet. Has good finishes with both hands at the rim. The shot looks solid. I think it will translate. Has some mid-range game(pull ups, turn around jumpers, etc). Rebounds well... willing passer. Defensive metrics not great...
30. Noah Clowney - 4/5? smallball 5? good movement for his size... has some athletic ability. Attacks close outs and attacks the rim... very good rebounder it seems. Shot looks OK(but 3p% and FT% don't suggest he will be a shooter in the NBA)... but they let him shoot over 3 a game. Interesting... Seems to have some defensive ability as a rim protector and overall defender.
What did I get wrong? Where did I miss context?
Indiana isn't showing enough of the video to draw much of a conclusion. I'd like to see him handle the ball and change direction though, make a spin move, shoot a turnaround, something that shows he's more than just a spot-up shooter.
Coulibaly's potential is off the charts and his progression in the past year is significant. He shows great hands and advanced timing on some tough catches and put-back finishes. He needs a tighter handle and a lower stance to open up his off-the-dribble game. He could be even more explosive as he develops his body. He's definitely someone who should go in the lottery. He reminds me of Wiggins. His jumper needs some work though.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
I haven’t been able to buy into the Taylor Hendricks hype. Crazy to me to think some say his range is as low as 6. This seems outlandish to me. I’ll be finding time to watch one of his full games to check him out sometime before the draft.
The Jazz Wonderbra
Well-Known Member
Hey there... easy on the potty talk.
Pretty upset there. If I didn't know any better I might start to think that defensive position comes because this is personal.
David? Is that you? Numbers guy. Hmmm... riiiiiiiiiight.
Handlogten's Heros
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2019 Award Winner
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Yeah no way… David would have a thousand misspellings and also would have like a way worse understanding of the cba compared to @NUMBERICA
The Jazz Wonderbra
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. Numberica was just a little touchy on the Locke criticism and pretty spiteful towards Booner... Both at pretty personal levels... maybe they are related.
My personal thoughts on these guys"
Klintman - I mostly think it's funny that he's called a "man of mystery" as if he's playing in dimly lit gyms. Reality is that he's a mystery because he couldn't get off the bench. Strong finish to the season, however, and has some U20 film (lower Euro competition) that intrigues some because he was playing point forward. I think he looks very slow even if he is fluid + he barely gets off the ground. His rim finishing is arguably the worst in the entire class, not just for bigs but the entire class. Only 53% at the rim despite 62% of them being assisted. Even though he finished the year strong his production was woefully bad, and he's not exactly young either. If he was 18 and one of the youngest players in the draft....maybe, but he is sophomore aged. When you're sophomore aged and so unproductive it's hard for me to become a believer.
Coulibaly - Favorite player in the draft, I think your concerns about his strength are valid but he's one of the youngest players in the draft + has grown 7-8+ inches in the last two years. If you want to see his offensive "bag" you can watch his youth league stuff. If you don't want to consider it at all I get it, but since people highly value Klintman's U20 film you might be interested. He is a former PG and at the youth level you see him as a super usage score who plays a ton of PnR. He's a big time late bloomer and only got PT for the senior team half way through the year. Over time he's gotten some more opportunity and in the semi finals he become one of the leading scorers and showed his potential with the ball in his hands. It remains a question as to how much he's being held back by instruction versus his current level. Another thing I'd point out is that his defense stands out in a big way. Does everything you want from a wing, active hands, guards bigs+smalls, gets around screens, and makes tons of multi-effort plays. He is one of the best, if not the best defensive wing prospects in the draft.
Cissoko - I honestly don't know what to think, such a weird mashup of skills. He's played a lot of PG in his career and it shows with his passing. I think he's just OK as an athlete but he has an grown man's body. Hard to get a feel for him and his crazy low rebounding is somewhat alarming for me. He has a lot of fans because of his unique skillset, but honestly I think it overshadows his shooting with doesn't look great to me.
Rupert - Great defensive prospect, has stunk it up badly everywhere he's gone on offense. Unfortunately I think that's his fate in the NBA as well. I think he's on par with Coulibaly as a defensive prospect but without any of the offensive intrigue and doesn't have the same gliding athleticism.
Jones - Just a really solid combo guard. Great floater game and a really active defender. Kinda boring though.
Lewis - Some people swear by him and his athleticism+skill combo, I find his advanced metrics alarming. Some people come away watching his film wowed and others seem to understand why his metrics stink. Honestly haven't watched a ton of him.
Clowney - One of my favorites in the draft and also one of the youngest players in the draft. Outstanding finishing around the basket with good touch+length+athleticism. His advanced metrics are also very strong which is impressive for such a young player. I don't have the stats with me, but I think I remember seeing that he's one of the leaders in taking charges to go along with being a decent shot blocker which the numbers love. I like him in particular because I think he can make it in the NBA just on his defense + rim finishing alone. His frame + athleticism reminds me of a Nic Claxton type. The shooting, who knows? I think the form looks great but it doesn't go in. To me that's a swing skill where if he can make it he can be an awesome 4/5 combo. If not, he's more of a Claxton/Gafford type. He will need to put on a little weight to become a full time 5, but I love his toughness.
Get ready to get fired up again. https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2023 updated their site today.
9. Gradey Dick
16. Jalen Hood-Schifino
28. Julian Strawther
This would drive me nuts. Also, who would play forward with Lauri?
9. Gradey Dick
16. Jalen Hood-Schifino
28. Julian Strawther
This would drive me nuts. Also, who would play forward with Lauri?
The Jazz Wonderbra
Well-Known Member
Yeah... sure. Deep rooted anti-intellectualism... Locke truly shares your dizzying intellect. Plenty of people don't like him for plenty of reasons. Get over it.
People who SPEAK for a living are open to commentary about their VOICE. That is without bringing homophobia/misogyny in to it. He's annoying to listen to. Most of his original ideas aren't his. They are regurgated from others in the industry and he regularly doesn't show mastery of the stats and numbers he brings up. He is an echo chamber of smart people but he doesn't enhance their thoughts imho.
Homophobia??? Ha ha ha. For the record, I have never thought of Locke as being homosexual whether he is or isn't. Wouldn't care. I don't even see undertones there. Shrill is shrill. How does that make him gay? WTF?
Plaguery or 'borrowing information' is kind of his calling card. He honestly said in one podcast to a colleague... "I am going to plaguerize you". He regularly has collegues on his show that he 'borrows' their ideas. I find his tone and approach disrespectful and if I were on his show, I would chose not to come back... Funny... I actually do find that pattern of robbing content to be slightly anti-intellectual.
The Jazz Wonderbra
Well-Known Member
What does everyone think of Amari Bailey?
He has several plusses that stand out for me:
1. Highly recruited coming out of HS
2. Absolutely lit up the Combine... I LOVE watching guys who shine at the combine because it typically translates to early contribution in the league.
3. He had questions about his defensive prowess so he went to UCLA (a defensive minded program) to learn how to defend better. I like the willingness to not hide or focus on his strengths but instead to push himself on his weaknesses.
4. He wasn't a known as a point guard but seems to have reinvented himself as a point guard.
I am higher on Hawkins but at 28, I would be all over picking Amari up.
He has several plusses that stand out for me:
1. Highly recruited coming out of HS
2. Absolutely lit up the Combine... I LOVE watching guys who shine at the combine because it typically translates to early contribution in the league.
3. He had questions about his defensive prowess so he went to UCLA (a defensive minded program) to learn how to defend better. I like the willingness to not hide or focus on his strengths but instead to push himself on his weaknesses.
4. He wasn't a known as a point guard but seems to have reinvented himself as a point guard.
I am higher on Hawkins but at 28, I would be all over picking Amari up.
I like him a lot. I think he will be a good connector on offense at the next level and I liked his defense. I do not buy into the hyped version of him when he was a younger HS player, but I have a lot of belief in his role player potential. If you watched his games at the end of the season when he got more offensive responsibility he had such a great partnership with Jaquez and was able to get him the ball in great position. He would be a great fit with Lauri. Gets to the basket, can make the simple pass, and is awesome at making entry passes into the paint.
I don't like his hesitation to shoot 3 ball, but generally I like guys who can fit in early while still having some upside potential.
Yeah... it's hard for me to get a feel for what players like that really are like from highlights. Very low production and defensive problems are hard to gauge on a highlight...
I don't care about his French youth competitions. It's pretty much meaningless to me. I remember getting fooled by ... what was this guy's name... let me check(back after 5 minutes of googling)... Isaia Cordinier. He had some insane highlights from French youth leagues. The competition is just not very good. But yeah... I saw his last game in the playoffs and he looked very intriguing to me. He's still not a ballhandler but what he's asked to do he does well... and he sprinkles in some fascinating flashes of what he could be with some development. I think he will very likely be in my top 15(for whatever it's worth when you know I'm not watching full games of most prospects).
Reminds me a bit of... wingy version of Vanderbilt when it comes to weird combo of skillsets.
Why are his stocks so low if he's this good of a defender? I didn't love his highlights... so he has to be really good at the things that don't show on highlights for me to be intrigued.
Agreed.
That last group of players has some intriguing players. Maybe that draft is not that bad after all. Even at 28 there might be a player I would really like for us.
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
hawkins won't be there at 28 and i'd love Bailey at 28 especially if the jazz don't get a guard before that.
Pretty good mock for the Jazz. Hendricks at 9, JHS 16 and GG 28. I may have preferred Bufkin at 16 but I wouldn't be mad at JHS.
View: https://twitter.com/GlobalScouting_/status/1666557857167208449
View: https://twitter.com/GlobalScouting_/status/1666557857167208449
not bad considering we would keep all those future picks
IMO, Klintman's highlights alone are kinda mundane. He doesn't pop athletically or from a skill standpoint to my eye. The U20 film that people are intrigued by might as well be filmed at a local rec center.
I care a little bit, but kinda in the same way you would value what a player was like in HS. There was a time when the youth league was all we had on Coulibaly and he was truly a mystery and his highlights/numbers were so eye popping it intrigued me. My thought was that Thompson twins are going lotto by dunking all over some very weak competition, so why not this French guy who looks like Jordan against weak competition but is younger and has better reported measurables? That's what first caught my eye with him. I was talking about giving him a promise at #28 to keep him in this draft and stash him, but he has gone way past that now and looks to be receiving a promise in the lotto.
His senior team career has removed some of the mystery in both good ways in bad ways IMO. I feel incredibly confident in his defense and his effort/hustle, but less optimistic about him being French Jordan. I had pegged a McDaniels/Herb Jones type as his most likely outcome, but his rapid development in the playoffs is starting up the hype machine again. I'm very impressed with ascent into a bigger offensive role. He's probably the most improved player in this draft over the last 12-18 months and I'd bet on the trend to continue.
That's an interesting comparison and I see some similarities....There was a time when Vando was seen as unicorn point forward guy coming out of HS. What makes me uncomfortable about Sidy vs Vanderbilt is that he's not rebounding and getting stocks to the same level. I don't know if Sidy will be good enough at the other things to have a chance to materialize his passing into anything. I've gone back and forth on him, but right now I'm gonna say he's more "unique" than he is "good".
He is playing in a tougher league, but yeah fair point. I do think he might be a tad overrated on defense because he does the stuff that catches eyes (full court pressure etc.). But his reputation is so strong here I have to respect it. Before this year it was Sidy+Rupert way ahead of Coulibaly, but that has changed rapidly.
Was tempted to call Whitmore the Dok of SFs -- great physical tools, if very slightly on the short side, but can't pass to save his life.
Now of course that's very unfair (and I was thinking this more as a troll than anything else), as there's all kinds of good stuff Whitmore can do besides dunk (and I actually think there's more passing ability in there somewhere than he's shown yet), but you all do realize that by his latter years at Kansas, Dok was doling out assists better than Whitmore did this past year, don't you?