I mean, it should. The Rockets had a little streak towards the end against teams who wanted to lose. If Utah was trying to win, even with the trades they made, they would have finished above Houston.
2024-25 Schedule Released
- Thread starter KqWIN
- Start date
They dont even have to do that. If Hardy/DA just played the best 9-10 guys they had the appropriate minutes, Utah would smoke Houston.
There's just this strange thing on this board where some posters just think Houston's young talent is guarnateed to make these big leaps but Keyonte/Walker/Hendricks are destined to be bad/mediocre again.
VORP is just one thing to consider. Unlike you, I actually what these numbers mean and how they are calculated. I choose to take a more holistic view rather than looking a single number and using it like gospel. Do you consider metrics that also include +/- statistics? I do, and this is especially the case for a player like DIllon Brooks who does not necessarily see his impact show up in the box score.
But if it's VORP or nothing, Sengun and FVV are wayyyy better than the Jazz have. So pick a struggle. You can choose to ignore everything else in Brooks' favor and hyper fixate on VORP, but what does that mean for Sengun and FVV vs Lauri and Sexton?
I just don't get the hand-wringing over Houston of all teams. The Jazz were a few games ahead of them at the trade deadline, and that was despite Lauri missing a ton of games in the first couple months of the season. From there, the Jazz went the all-out tanking route, and the Rockets went the go all out against the tanking teams.
Yeah the latter part is so weird. Like how can you not realize that you are watching highlights of the other guys and full tape on your own guy? The Houston young guys have warts as well and Keyonte highlight tape is seriously good.
Yet one is destined to be a losing player and the others are destined to make leaps.
Sir, I never said it was VORP or nothing, but Brooks VORP is wildly bad and everyone knows he sucks. Brooks adds some "culture" aspects, but he is a huge net negative as a player. He can get hot and have some nice streaks, but his bad games absolutely sink his teams.
I would not be shocked if Keyonte outplays Jalen Green next year.
There's a reason Memphis had no interest in bringing back Brooks.
Everyone knows he sucks? You always say stuff like that. Not everyone thinks that, and the numbers don't think that either. You look at metrics that involve his adjusted plus minus....he's a fine role player. Maybe he plays too many minutes but he's not a Mills/Eubanks level of player lmao.
Yall have this grudge against HOU, I get it. Anything you guys say about their long term future...it's mostly irrelevant to the 24-25 season. The Jazz are expected to win 29-30 games this season. That's not me projecting that, it's Vegas. The Rockets won 41 games last season with a point differential of a 44 win team. It's not like you have to project crazy improvement to their young guys to think the Rockets are going to be better than the Jazz next season. If you project zero improvement from the Rockets young guys, it would still take remarkable health and internal improvement from the Jazz to reach that 82 game season level.
Excuse me, everyone but some guy who just wants to argue on the internet.
The main reason people project Houston to be better is an assumption Utah will do tanking maneuvers in season and Houston wont. But my point is Houston has no reason to try to win, just like Utah. They should be trying to tank. Does having FVV on that team really do anything for them long-term? Just trade him and lose a lot of games, because he is the main player who makes Houston a decent team.
I do think Houston will wise up, realize they have no shot at teh play in because they are bad, find a deal for FVV, and will tank because Sengun/Green arent good enough to carry Houston's young roster in a loaded west. And without FVV, Brooks will get the ball more and him and Green will absolutely tank the team with their inefficient play not having a vet PG like FVV to keep them somewhat in check.
Last edited:
Not only did they have no interest, they also made it abundantly clear to everyone. I mean you rarely see that.
I believe they used the term "under any circumstances".
I think it's just that Houston's young guys are a year more experienced in general than our guys. They are also higher draft picks in general than our guys. I don't think they are amazing or anything, and I don't personally like their future better than ours, but I just think they are a year further along in their development.
Haha, sure. Everyone is just like you and think he's worse than Patty Mills. It's comical to me that we're entertaining the idea of Brooks sending them into tank oblivion while also saying that Clarkson is the reason we can't tank. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one lol.
You don't get to make up reasoning for me, I decide why I think a team is better than the other. HOU's roster is straight up better than ours to win during an 82 game season. Sengun and FVV are both coming off great seasons. They have incredible depth that includes both proven vets and young players that have the potential to improve. On top of that, I believe this Rockets team can win a decent amount of games because they've already done it. Those are the main reasons why I think they will be ahead. But I also agree that HOU will try to win more than UTA, both things can be true. Of course it's a big factor that the Jazz are openly playing for development. The Rockets have a better current roster and a greater desire to win. HOU tanking beyond us is not impossible, but incredibly unlikely. I'm not worried.
I don't give a damn about the long term direction of HOU, it is irrelevant to this discussion. They are not going to tank and they don't have the roster to tank. Your personal dislike for HOU or people overrating their long term position is also irrelevant.
You may have a point. It's hard to predict the draft positions based on the expected wins since we have to make these predictions for all non-playoff teams. I think it is easier just to compare those teams rosters and the incentives to tank.
My take:
- 4 teams have worse rosters than the Jazz and they will most likely finish with the worst record: the Wizards, Pistons, Nets, Blazers.
- Another 3 teams have a roughly comparable roster: the Bulls, Hornets, Spurs. On average 1.5 teams of that group will finish below the Jazz.
- Finally, as usual, at least one of the stronger teams will have a series of injuries early in the season and end up tanking/falling all the way down (see Memphis last year).
So, summing it all up, the most likely outcome is that the Jazz will have 4+1.5+1=6.5 teams below them in the standings and end up with the 7th or the 8th pick.
I mean, yeah, the Jazz could trade some vets at the trade deadline or limit the minutes for Lauri, but so could do the Bulls, Blazers, and other bad teams. Realistically, this season's outcomes for the Jazz are somewhere in the 6th-9th range, with the 7-8th being the most likely result.
They have also won 10 more games than the Jazz and now have Steven Adams ready to bolster their interior defense and play against strong centers (their biggest weaknesses last season).
How many minutes do you see Adams play next year? He's getting pretty old and has been injured most of the time the last couple of years.
I don't know what you are talking about. Last season was the only one when Adams missed significant amount of games - and he still played 42 games. Also, he has just turned 31 and has been playing exactly the same amount of minutes during his 4 last years, 27MPG - it is also his career average.
Are you talking about some other Steven Adams, perhaps?
FYI, he played zero games last season, 42 the year before.