Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
Lol I can't make heads or tails of how this forum decides era comparisons.
Russell is obviously a more accomplished player with a much better legacy than KD
2024 All-Time NBA Draft Round 2: Team W vs Team R
- Thread starter Thee Idiotic Minivan K
- Start date
Russell is obviously a more accomplished player with a much better legacy than KD
Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
Fosto
Well-Known Member
Of course. But if you had a time machine and had to pick either prime KD or prime Russell to put on a team you're building, you'd pick the latter? I think that's crazy. Russell had so many limitations, and I don't think he'd be a top player in the modern NBA.
Russell is arguably the best defensive player of all time and Durant is arguably the best offensive player of all time. I can see how the comparison would be close, but also kind of impossible to say who's better.
Personally, Russell is my favorite player of all time, so I would go with him, but I don't think it's completely absurd either way.
Personally, Russell is my favorite player of all time, so I would go with him, but I don't think it's completely absurd either way.
At worst Russell would be Kevin Garnett in the modern NBA, but when comparing eras I think you have to bake in previous era players with modern NBA training.
Fosto
Well-Known Member
Durant is much better on the defensive end than Russell offensively. Durant, imo, was a top 20 defender in his prime.
Fosto
Well-Known Member
No way. Garnett could shoot.
Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
No I definitely wouldn't.
But last week during voting those comparisons were not flying. Instead it was 'Bring Bird to the modern game and he would destroy it'
I just don't know how this is decided, other than "If Thee was old enough to see them play then you are able to bring that old player to the modern league and assume modern training, medicine, etc." If Thee didn't see them play then they are old bozos who played against plumbers and suck ***.
Leaving eras out of it it's hard to think of a worse spot to put KD than down low with the best defensive center and rebounder of all time. Unless you just decide to say that the 60's center isn't **** against a modern team, but that is my point, I don't think we've really ever done it that way.
Fosto
Well-Known Member
Bird would slay in the modern NBA. A shooting big with amazing vision!
Russell is an offensive liability. Purely a defensive specialist. His offensive game is worse than Gobert.
Russell could do way more offensively than you are giving him credit for. Also, I personally think if Russell grew up in the modern era he would have been exposed very early to coaches that would help him to dribble and shoot and he could have developed a shot on par with Garnett.
Fosto
Well-Known Member
His TS% was like 45%!! Would literally be one of the least, if not the least, efficient players in the modern NBA. And he was a center!!
Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
Yea, see I totally get that argument and am fine with it.
Except Russell will always be drafted in the top 2 rounds of this thing and Gobert much much later. And no one has ever said "Terrible Russell pick, he can't play in this kind of tournament.
I am fine with either way of voting, I am just saying that I am not seeing much consistency. Hopefully that isn't an unreasonable takeaway. Obviously the results of this poll don't matter much, but going forward it would be good if there was a little more predictability in how these things will be voted on.
Fosto
Well-Known Member
I can't speak for anyone else. I'm simply stating my opinion. I would pick Russell with my 6th pick as a nice defensive specialist off the bench. This is purely based on what I think of his game.
Shooting and efficiency wasn't a focus back then. He was fine by his era's standards.
Again, my personal view is that you have to imagine how that player would develop given modern training and emphasis. Since I'm a homer, I choose to believe he would have developed a Garnett level offensive game if he grew up in the modern era.
Bill Russell Career Win Shares - 29.9 OWS, 133.6 DWS, 163.5 TWS (963 games)
Kevin Durant Career Win Shares - 120.2OWS, 49.3DWS, 170.2TWS (1061 games)
Basically what I said. They are difficult to compare, but in the end their value is probably similar.
Kevin Durant Career Win Shares - 120.2OWS, 49.3DWS, 170.2TWS (1061 games)
Basically what I said. They are difficult to compare, but in the end their value is probably similar.
Fosto
Well-Known Member
I cannot find any pre-80s legend who was anywhere near as inefficient as Russell. Wilt 57% TS, West 56%, Robertson 56%. Hell, even Bailey Howell was at 53%. And Russell was a center in an era where players were vastly less athletic than today. I am imagining him in the current era. That's the whole point.
Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
I just went back to the draft thread and Embiid was taken ahead of Russell. So yea, I just really misunderstood the assignment. Never liked my team anyway so nbd. But yes, was not quite prepared to have Bill Russell slotted in at center and for that to be seen as a negative.
I get the arguments for why though, of course.
I get the arguments for why though, of course.
He was above league average for FG% for his era. Not great for a center, but he was a good passer and played well enough to keep him on the court while his defense lead his team to wins. I believe if he played today he would have developed in to a league average offensive player to keep him on the court to play defense. It requires some imagination, but just imagine his work ethic and determination combined with modern training.
The hard part will be keeping Russell off the glass if Wallace is preoccupied with Duncan. He is going to create a ton of extra possessions offensively.
Except all he has to do to “create” is catch a basketball and shove Durant through the hoop.