I would also say the success of OKC is more evidence you need to vary your draft and draft different archetypes and not double down on similar players
2024 NBA Draft Mega Thread
- Thread starter Saint Cy of JFC
- Start date
HermanG
Well-Known Member
Yeah that way you also actually give those players a chance to grow together to become a team, instead of just having them dogfight about who scores most points off the dribble...
Its obivious that you dont just draft to fit, but ignoring that part of the equasion and pretending that maximizing talent is the only thing you should worry about is nonsense. Detroit has drafted to maximize talent, and as a result they got the most talented 14 win team ever.
View: https://twitter.com/CoreyTulaba/status/1788205077057995251
I remember having a back and forth with someone who said Topic might measure short. No chance.
I don't think anyone has questioned the listed height. It was more the length that has been questioned
Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
Sheppard, Knecht, or Holland. And I don't hate those options.
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
I could talk myself in to liking those 3, but wouldn't be super excited.
Yeah, we both agreed the length didn’t really add up.
Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
In this draft getting super excited is gonna be tough.
We will manage. Don't really have a choice but to get excited.
Givony said if the Jazz jump into the top-4 this is who he thinks they should pick in order:
1. Risacher
2. Sarr
3. Topic
4. Sheppard
Who he thinks is the most likely pick if we stay at 8: Dalton Knecht.
1. Risacher
2. Sarr
3. Topic
4. Sheppard
Who he thinks is the most likely pick if we stay at 8: Dalton Knecht.
To me, Batum is a jack of all trades players and if you had to say something was his specialty it would be his defense/passing. I think the biggest worry for me is that while Cody scored efficiently, he did almost nothing else. He will need to shoot regardless of archetype, if he can't shoot he's not an NBA player.
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
It looks like Topic played again yesterday and scored 4pts, 3ast, 0reb in 12:41. I can't find the shooting splits. I believe they are now moving on to the finals, so he likely has two more games left.
I was hoping his play on the better team would make things more clear, but so far it's not. The confusing thing for me is that it appears that he is playing in the same league, the ABA, but just the better team in the league. I was under the impression he was moving up to a better league, but this doesn't appear to be the case. Can somebody confirm?
Topic remains the highest risk/highest reward player for me in the draft. I can imagine scenarios where he becomes a franchise type player, but I can also imagine him being a complete bust.
I was hoping his play on the better team would make things more clear, but so far it's not. The confusing thing for me is that it appears that he is playing in the same league, the ABA, but just the better team in the league. I was under the impression he was moving up to a better league, but this doesn't appear to be the case. Can somebody confirm?
Topic remains the highest risk/highest reward player for me in the draft. I can imagine scenarios where he becomes a franchise type player, but I can also imagine him being a complete bust.
If the Thunder didn't draft who they thought were the best guys, they probably don't have Jalen. He was definitely not the best "fit" guyswhen drafting and Jalen in and does not fit with Giddey+Shai already there. We're seeing that play out right now. What an awful problem they have with having to sit Giddey....Expect that it's a champagne problem and the actual problem would have been if they passed on Jalen. We're actually seeing what happens when you draft guys that aren't a particularly great fit.....not a bad problem to have.
It's not like they spread apart their archetypes either. For example, they never drafted a shooting prospect and typically differed to positional size/defensive ability. From where I'm standing, they drafted the best guys. You also can't just assign guys as "bpa" picks when they go poorly. For example, people thought Ivey was a great fit with Cade. He got ample opportunity to develop and showcase his ability. I would be difficult to say it was the team factors that have prevented Ivey or Cade from being who they thought they would be be. At the end of the day it doesn't look like it's going to work out for Ivey because he's simply not good enough. That's the case whether the guys are a theoretical "fit" or not.
Obviously, you can never really know who the best player is....but if your drafts go wrong, it's not because the players didn't fit together perfectly i's because you didn't get a good enough player. If you have too much talent but not fit, you can fix that problem but the same cannot be said when there is not talent. You don't ignore fit, but there is nobody on the Jazz that is preventing me from drafting the guy I think is the best guy. The only player good enough to consider that is Lauri, but he can play with anyone in the league. The other side of, "you can't tell who is bpa" is that you can't tell how any undeveloped player is going to be unless is totally obvious. We don't even know if Key is going to be a starter level player, no way I'm letting him keep me away from drafting another player.
If your more concerned about drafting a player for his fit with the league going forward, which is what @Saint Cy of JFC seems to me concerned with, that is one thing. But there's nobody on the Jazz roster that is keeping me from taking whoever I think is the best player.
It's not like they spread apart their archetypes either. For example, they never drafted a shooting prospect and typically differed to positional size/defensive ability. From where I'm standing, they drafted the best guys. You also can't just assign guys as "bpa" picks when they go poorly. For example, people thought Ivey was a great fit with Cade. He got ample opportunity to develop and showcase his ability. I would be difficult to say it was the team factors that have prevented Ivey or Cade from being who they thought they would be be. At the end of the day it doesn't look like it's going to work out for Ivey because he's simply not good enough. That's the case whether the guys are a theoretical "fit" or not.
Obviously, you can never really know who the best player is....but if your drafts go wrong, it's not because the players didn't fit together perfectly i's because you didn't get a good enough player. If you have too much talent but not fit, you can fix that problem but the same cannot be said when there is not talent. You don't ignore fit, but there is nobody on the Jazz that is preventing me from drafting the guy I think is the best guy. The only player good enough to consider that is Lauri, but he can play with anyone in the league. The other side of, "you can't tell who is bpa" is that you can't tell how any undeveloped player is going to be unless is totally obvious. We don't even know if Key is going to be a starter level player, no way I'm letting him keep me away from drafting another player.
If your more concerned about drafting a player for his fit with the league going forward, which is what @Saint Cy of JFC seems to me concerned with, that is one thing. But there's nobody on the Jazz roster that is keeping me from taking whoever I think is the best player.
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European teams compete in multiple competition. The domestic league is the Adriatic league which both Red Star (current team) and Mega (old team) compete in. The difference is that Red Star also competes in the Euroleague which features the best teams of all the domestic leagues around Europe.
Same domestic league but the team plays in the Euroleague as well.
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
OK, very helpful. It appears that that the current tournament is just the Adriatic league and that we likely won't see him in any Euroleague games, correct?
That information makes his current lack of production even more concerning.
The tournaments actually run simultaneously throughout the year, but the regular season is over for Red Star and they did not make the playoffs. All that's left for Topic and Red Star is Adriatic league games.
He only got 31 total minutes of Euroleague basketball due to injury. 7 points, 7 rebounds, 3-6 shooting.
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I was confused by the games he is currently playing in the Adriatic league tournament. I was under the impression that once he came back from injury he would be playing in the higher league (Euroleague), and so now that I saw he was playing games I assumed it was in a different league than what he had been playing in before. Basically, I was hoping to get more information in the higher league, but it looks like that isn't going to be the case, and the games he's playing in now are still in the lower league.
Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
Oof someone gonna really have to talk me into Risacher if this is the case.
