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4-team trade idea for SG & C

J

jimmyjazz

Member
>>https://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4gpl8eg

Jazz send Okur to Detroit, AK to NJ, get Hamilton and Dalembert

Detroit sends Rip to Utah, gets Okur and Petro

NJ sends Troy Murphy to Sac, Petro to Detroit, gets AK

Sac sends Dalembert to Utah, gets Murphy

Pistons get 2 bigs – 1 injured ex-All-Star and 1 hasn’t played much but still young
Kings save $1.5M in salary, expiring for expiring
Netskys get Kirilenko, and lose Petro’s smallish but multiyear deal

At the cost of AK and a broken down Okur, the Jazz get a starting SG, allow Jefferson to play PF alongside a defensive C (expiring), make Hayward a token starter and add 2 ex-starters to the bench:

DWill, Watson, Price
Rip, Bell
Hayward, CJ
Jefferson, Sap
Dalembert, Elson, Fes
 
jimmyjazz said:
>>https://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4gpl8eg

Jazz send Okur to Detroit, AK to NJ, get Hamilton and Dalembert

Detroit sends Rip to Utah, gets Okur and Petro

NJ sends Troy Murphy to Sac, Petro to Detroit, gets AK

Sac sends Dalembert to Utah, gets Murphy

Pistons get 2 bigs – 1 injured ex-All-Star and 1 hasn’t played much but still young
Kings save $1.5M in salary, expiring for expiring
Netskys get Kirilenko, and lose Petro’s smallish but multiyear deal

At the cost of AK and a broken down Okur, the Jazz get a starting SG, allow Jefferson to play PF alongside a defensive C (expiring), make Hayward a token starter and add 2 ex-starters to the bench:

DWill, Watson, Price
Rip, Bell
Hayward, CJ
Jefferson, Sap
Dalembert, Elson, Fes
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no reason for SAC to get involved unless they're getting a pick & no one is trading picks for those pieces.
 
PrinceJL said:
no reason for SAC to get involved unless they're getting a pick & no one is trading picks for those pieces.
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There's the 1.5M salary savings between them keeping Dalembert and getting Murphy. Don't know if they'll want to keep Murphy but he could be a shooting PF they might re-sign on the cheap to spread the floor for Cousins. But mainly it's the 1.5M pro-rated without giving up anything they'd want to keep.
 
jimmyjazz said:
There's the 1.5M salary savings between them keeping Dalembert and getting Murphy. Don't know if they'll want to keep Murphy but he could be a shooting PF they might re-sign on the cheap to spread the floor for Cousins. But mainly it's the 1.5M pro-rated without giving up anything they'd want to keep.
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SAC is already under the cap, so they're not saving 1.5M. plus, they can net more than Murphy for Dalembert.
 
I am in favor of any trade that gets us far more than what we would give up, regardless of how it treats the other team.


Now whether I believe it would ever happen.....
 
I stopped reading when you said we'd get Dalembert. Dalembert is awful. I'd rather start Fes.
 
It's amazing to me how people make these AK trades and don't seem to notice that we always lose wins while the team that gets AK increases their wins by 5+. The reason is because AK is good, and you (who make these trade threads) undervalue him. It seems to me like you're looking for ways to get rid of AK, and not asking yourself, are we getting back players that are better than AK? We never do, in these trade scenarios -- and most of the time we take back lousy contracts for aged players while getting worse as a team.

I'm going to plus rep you, though, because at least it's not a Danny Granger trade, and I need to spread some rep so I can neg Viny.
 
Stickler said:
It's amazing to me how people make these AK trades and don't seem to notice that we always lose wins while the team that gets AK increases their wins by 5+. The reason is because AK is good, and you (who make these trade threads) undervalue him. It seems to me like you're looking for ways to get rid of AK, and not asking yourself, are we getting back players that are better than AK? We never do, in these trade scenarios -- and most of the time we take back lousy contracts for aged players while getting worse as a team.

I'm going to plus rep you, though, because at least it's not a Danny Granger trade, and I need to spread some rep so I can neg Viny.
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You actually think that the Jazz MUST get a player better than AK in a straight-up trade? That is some mighty high expectations. I had proposed an AK for Iguodala trade move too. But I realize that trading AK is also as much about financial and LT relief . I wouldnt mind getting two solid role players in return for AK if it saves some cash. Also you forget to factor in AK's durability or lack thereof. That, by itself, would cost any team 10-15 games every year.
Unless you think continuing to pay 18 mil to an injury-prone guy to be be an inconsistent 4th option on offense is a great idea.
But the Jazz probably think that letting AK's contract run its course and allowing it to come off the books is not such a bad idea, especially that they have already paid most of the $$ on his contract
 
vj_74 said:
You actually think that the Jazz MUST get a player better than AK in a straight-up trade? That is some mighty high expectations. I had proposed an AK for Iguodala trade move too. But I realize that trading AK is also as much about financial and LT relief . I wouldnt mind getting two solid role players in return for AK if it saves some cash. Also you forget to factor in AK's durability or lack thereof. That, by itself, would cost any team 10-15 games every year.
Unless you think continuing to pay 18 mil to an injury-prone guy to be be an inconsistent 4th option on offense is a great idea.
But the Jazz probably think that letting AK's contract run its course and allowing it to come off the books is not such a bad idea, especially that they have already paid most of the $$ on his contract
Click to expand...

Yes, I absolutely believe that if you're going to trade one of the best players on your team, you should get back a better player. If the team isn't better after the trade is over, you shouldn't make the trade, generally speaking. Call me crazy. If there isn't an AK trade out there that improves the team (this one doesn't), let the contract expire and see what the next collective bargaining agreement holds. The last thing you want is a guy like Rip, old and creaky and dusty-boned, rolling around on the court in slow motion for the next 3 years at 12-million plus. Flexibility killer for the Jazz's future prospects. Not a good idea.
 
Rip Hamilton for anyone is a bad trade considering his contract and playing ability.

Players I would rather have than AK in no particular order:

Iguodola
Gerald Wallace
Jason Richardson
Granger
Nene Hilario+Affalo
Morrow+Murphy

and a few more if I dig deeper..
 
Stickler said:
Yes, I absolutely believe that if you're going to trade one of the best players on your team, you should get back a better player. If the team isn't better after the trade is over, you shouldn't make the trade, generally speaking. .
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All that would be OK if the said player has a reasonable contract. What if the player is unreasonably overpaid?

You expect a team to help us take AK's contract off our hands and also give a better player in return?

It is a bit too late now. But 2-3 yrs back Jazz should have jumped at any offer that gave them back a lesser(but solid) player provided they were getting rid of AK's contract. They did'nt. And they are still paying the price for it.
 
vj_74 said:
All that would be OK if the said player has a reasonable contract. What if the player is unreasonably overpaid?

You expect a team to help us take AK's contract off our hands and also give a better player in return?

It is a bit too late now. But 2-3 yrs back Jazz should have jumped at any offer that gave them back a lesser(but solid) player provided they were getting rid of AK's contract. They did'nt. And they are still paying the price for it.
Click to expand...

Expect? Not exactly. But in the NBA, in any trade, the team that brings back the best player always wins. Why would you trade somebody for a player who is worse? I mean, teams do it all the time, for a variety of reasons -- salary dumps, etc. But I prefer trades to be basketball decisions, not financial decisions. The owners of many NBA teams clearly disagree with me.

By the way, of course the Jazz would be crazy not to trade AK for Iggy, Granger, and that tier of player. That's not the kind of AK trade that usually gets suggested on this board, though. And, of course, there's this little problem that the teams those guys play for aren't going to trade them to us for AK, and that those are absurd trade ideas.

I don't think you've ever seen Troy Murphy play, though, if you want him on the Jazz. I'm being completely sincere. You've never seen Troy Murphy play. There is just no way. He is ten kinds of terrible.
 
I mean, teams do it all the time, for a variety of reasons -- salary dumps, etc. But I prefer trades to be basketball decisions, not financial decisions. The owners of many NBA teams clearly disagree with me.
Click to expand...

You have to realize that trading AK for a lesser player 2-3 years back(although Marion and T-Mac at that time werent any lesser) would have ultimately helped the Jazz go after a better player eventually. It shouldnt be viewed in isolation. It should be viewed as just cutting your losses and in the process gaining some flexibility to go after something better. Of course teams do this all the time and for a good reason.

And regarding Murphy, I know he is Okur-lite. But as a throw-in in a trade for Morrow and as a half-season rental to sub for Okur(who looks more hobbled than ever) he cant be that bad. Last year he averaged 15 and 10 while shooting 38% from 3-pt land. Not too bad for bench production. But I just looked up and it seems like he is also coming back from an injury and putting up messed up numbers this season. Only relief here is that he is an expiring contract
 
vj_74 said:
You have to realize that trading AK for a lesser player 2-3 years back(although Marion and T-Mac at that time werent any lesser) would have ultimately helped the Jazz go after a better player eventually. It shouldnt be viewed in isolation. It should be viewed as just cutting your losses and in the process gaining some flexibility to go after something better. Of course teams do this all the time and for a good reason.
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Okaaaaay.... Why is that relevant to the conversation we're having now? I would say that I don't necessarily disagree with you on the trade philosophy you're describing here -- but I wouldn't have made either of those trades. AK was better than T-Mac and continues to be better than T-Mac. Marion is one-dimensional.

And regarding Murphy, I know he is Okur-lite. But as a throw-in in a trade for Morrow and as a half-season rental to sub for Okur(who looks more hobbled than ever) he cant be that bad. Last year he averaged 15 and 10 while shooting 38% from 3-pt land. Not too bad for bench production.
Click to expand...

Dude. Troy Murphy was not on the bench last season. And yes, his numbers look fine. But I probably watched 30 Pacers last season, and I've seen a lot of Troy Murphy over the years, and I promise you if you ever actually watched him play, you would hate him in about three games. There is absolutely no substance to his numbers. The man is absolute fool's gold.

But I just looked up and it seems like he is also coming back from an injury and putting up messed up numbers this season. Only relief here is that he is an expiring contract
Click to expand...

He's not even playing this season. Avery Johnson is actually on record as saying that the minutes he's received on The Nets have been to try to showcase him for a trade. This is a team that needed a power forward, thought they were helping themselves by trading for Murphy, and within weeks the team was feuding with the guy in the newspapers and trying desperately to trade him.

The Pacers had no hesitation in trading a 20/10 guy to give his minutes to a guy on a near-minimum contract. And they were instantly a vastly better team. This should all tell you something about Troy Murphy.
 
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