A story about prayer

[Zombie]

It's funny because, unlike most people, I fully support that. If you believe something is right and good, how can you just keep it to yourself? Back in the day, I used to invite missionaries in and have little debates. But since now they're just children while I'm all grown up, I just express my lack of interest politely and shut the door.

Me too actually. Just a few years ago I made really good friends with some missionaries who would come over and have pizza and debate once a week. I have no problem with missionaries of any kind. I just think its funny that talking about ones beliefs only seems to be a problem with some people when the beliefs run counter to their own.

 

[Fishsticks]

OhhhI bet this thread has just been a treat.

 

[colton]

Perhaps I should have been more clear and said talking honestly about their religions (relatively recent) history. But you know the fact is that was preached from the pulpit by an LDS prophet.

What you quoted was not preached from the pulpit by an LDS prophet. It was written for a Wikipedia article, summarizing SOME people's opinions of what was taught. But not the LDS church's. By contrast I suspect the typical LDS view (among those who even know what you're talking about; most probably do not) is given later in the article given by Pres. Kimball, "[Pres. Kimball] said that he did not say that President Brigham Young did not make the statements which are attributed to him, nor did he claim that they were falsely reported. Neither did he say that Brigham Young taught false doctrine. What he did say and what he meant is that the Adam–God theory is false, and the Adam–God theory is that interpretation which is placed on Brigham Young's words by present day apostates and fundamentalists—their understanding of what Brigham Young meant is false."

If you want to have a serious discussion about the Adam-God theory, then read the original sermons by Young as I have. Then you can read the analysis of them that I wrote several years ago, here. https://www.physics.byu.edu/faculty/colton/personal/lds/adamisgod.htm (I've actually included many paragraphs of the original sermons in case you don't have a source for them.) Then we can talk.

But doing a "drive by posting" of a Wikipedia article implying that that's what LDS people believe (especially when you even admit that you know we don't believe it!) is just lame. Hence the neg rep.

Sure, that no longer is generally believed by mormons nowadays, I know because I used to be one, but that just illustrates how silly the whole thing is! I mean, if Archie wants to use words written thousands of years ago to prove something about prayer, why can't I use words spoken merely a hundred and fifty years ago to do the same thing?

I don't follow the logic.

 

[Saltair's Finest]

Must say I'm disappointed that this topic has deteriorated into snide snippets and one-liners, for the most part. I believe we can all co-exist and be respectful of one another .. LDS, evangelicals, muslims, non-believers, etc .. I enjoyed the exchange throughout the day. Good night, God bless .. or whatever you prefer to hear that leads to a good night's rest.

do u have a coexist bumper sticker?

 

[Fishsticks]

Jelly?

 

[Dr. Jones]

I looked at the front page and saw Verlin has posted in this thread. I was like, "oh gawd ."

Welcome V, you're always a sight.

 

[Dr. Jones]

do u have a coexist bumper sticker?

Funny, but I was sincere. Perhaps once you've got more than 18 years old behind you, experienced more hurt, have a better understanding of mortality, you'll better get what I'm feeling. Either way, no, I don't own a bumper sticker.

 

[PearlWatson]

I personally don't understand the incredible efforts spent on trivial battles, like those memorial highway crosses.

The efforts by crossophobes to get them removed.

 

[TroutBum]

Methinks the only reason you brought up your gay friends is to say that you have some. Kind of like, I'm not racist, I have a black friend see! I only use the N word in a nonderogatory fashion! (when they're not around)

Well, of course someone would bring this up, and I thought they might. The only reason I brought it up is because it's more than a reasonable response, and gives a representation of friends and family from different parts of the country. The term "Gay" is nowhere near the term "Nìgger", and therefore isn't a valid point.

 

[Fishsticks]

I looked at the front page and saw Verlin has posted in this thread. I was like, "oh gawd ."

Welcome V, you're always a sight.

thanks
Probably my last post in this stinker. I'm sure it been said already but my view is why does god care about anyone of you mo fo more than the other? Truth is god don't give a turd about anyone more than thenext so prayer is just hot, stinky air. If you believe good for you. I Don't hate on anyone for their beliefs, just stating mine.

 

[Saltair's Finest]

Funny, but I was sincere. Perhaps once you've got more than 18 years old behind you, experienced more hurt, have a better understanding of mortality, you'll better get what I'm feeling. Either way, no, I don't own a bumper sticker.

how do U know what ive gone through? i wasnt making fun of u I asked cuz u used the word co exist if U read my posts in this thread U'd see I have the same beliefs as you Do I think if U didnt I said everyone should Be able to believe What they want

 

[Zombie]

What you quoted was not preached from the pulpit by an LDS prophet. It was written for a Wikipedia article, summarizing SOME people's opinions of what was taught. But not the LDS church's. By contrast I suspect the typical LDS view (among those who even know what you're talking about; most probably do not) is given later in the article given by Pres. Kimball, "[Pres. Kimball] said that he did not say that President Brigham Young did not make the statements which are attributed to him, nor did he claim that they were falsely reported. Neither did he say that Brigham Young taught false doctrine. What he did say and what he meant is that the Adam–God theory is false, and the Adam–God theory is that interpretation which is placed on Brigham Young's words by present day apostates and fundamentalists—their understanding of what Brigham Young meant is false."

If you want to have a serious discussion about the Adam-God theory, then read the original sermons by Young as I have. Then you can read the analysis of them that I wrote several years ago, here. https://www.physics.byu.edu/faculty/colton/personal/lds/adamisgod.htm (I've actually included many paragraphs of the original sermons in case you don't have a source for them.) Then we can talk.

But doing a "drive by posting" of a Wikipedia article implying that that's what LDS people believe (especially when you even admit that you know we don't believe it!) is just lame. Hence the neg rep.



I don't follow the logic.

Well for one thing it was a joke, so I think its rather funny that you jumped in here and took it all so seriously. If you want exact words, spoken from an LDS prophets sermon, here are a few:

"Adam came into the garden of Eden with a celestial body and one of his many wives, he is our Father and God..." JoD V.1 P.50

"Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven." JoD V. 1 P. 51

My apologies for using a summary, instead of the source documents. I didn't think they'd be as funny.
Once again, it was a joke, unbunch those panties and get back to administrating.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Epiphany of the day .. it's much easier to be a prick on this board than it is to be compassionate / show concern. For tha matter, it's a whole lot more fun too. To think I wasted an entire day on hand-holding when I could have been shooting at the same easy targets.

Lesson learned.

 

[TroutBum]

Epiphany of the day .. it's much easier to be a prick on this board than it is to be compassionate / show concern. For tha matter, it's a whole lot more fun too. To think I wasted an entire day on hand-holding when I could have been shooting at the same easy targets.

Lesson learned.

It took you this long? -21 incoming.

 

[Zombie]

Well, of course someone would bring this up, and I thought they might. The only reason I brought it up is because it's more than a reasonable response, and gives a representation of friends and family from different parts of the country. The term "Gay" is nowhere near the term "Nìgger", and therefore isn't a valid point.

Just in case you missed my edit, I wasn't being serious and I seriously doubt you are an antigay bigot.

 

[Dr. Jones]

^^^ considering the thread topic, I should use one of these;

 

[Dr. Jones]

It took you this long? -21 incoming.

Your 2 incher is showing.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Hey guys!!!!

 

[TroutBum]

Hey guys!!!!

Hey... Man.

You didn't miss anything here. Feel free to go back to the Jazz board.

Thanks in advance,

Us.

 

[colton]

Well for one thing it was a joke, so I think its rather funny that you jumped in here and took it all so seriously.

Hmm. Bad joke, then.

If you want exact words, spoken from an LDS prophets sermon, here are a few:

"Adam came into the garden of Eden with a celestial body and one of his many wives, he is our Father and God..." JoD V.1 P.50

"Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven." JoD V. 1 P. 51

In other words, you didn't read anything from the link that I provided. But I do appreciate you using source material this time. Again, if you want to have a serious discussion than read the (granted very lengthy) analysis I posted.

Edit: quick summary of my lengthy analysis: the first quote is very likely to mean that Adam has a special stewardship over us, his posterity, and not that he is identical to Heavenly Father or the one to whom we should pray; and the "same character" mentioned in the second quote is very likely to be talking about Heavenly Father (remember God visited Adam in the garden). Proponents of the Adam-God theory have a huge task to reconcile those two quotes with countless other statements by Brigham Young about the nature of God and the nature of Adam. See for example the 15 points at the very bottom of my analysis.