A success if Jefferson/Millsap/Harris/Watson turned into Pau/Iggy?

[idiot]

I like the idea of Iggy because it rounds us out. But not Gasol. I really like Gasol but bringing him in doesnt make sense.

1. It doesnt clear room to develop Kanter

2. The timing just isnt right. I see so many people talking about trades but dont take in account the timing. We have to be honest with ourselves that our young core isnt ready to win a championship. Adding Gasol will make us better, but not good enough to win it all. By the time our core is ready Pau will be past his prime. Rendering his addition useless in the future. We need to add youth to grow with the team. We have to think long term. Jazzfanz just need to be patient. Lets not blow our load too early.

I would rather obtain a bad contract for Al and a future first(s) to go along with it. The worse the player coming back the better. So long as all Al's traded value went into the value of the future pick we got back. Or a promising young wing player. I just dont want to see someone come in here and take development time from Kanter all for a fake title run.

Manage expectations, make caculated risks and moves, think long term, invest in the future, and we will be so much better off.

Agree and disagree. With a Gasol, Favors, Kanter rotation there's plenty of opportunity to develop Kanter.

Trading Al, etc. for picks/young talent is fine up to a point. The point is that they have to be well-above-average talent (top-10 pick, for example, or young stud clearly on the way up). If KOC can do that, I'm all for it. I'm just not sure it's all that possible. The whole league seems to have moved into a hoard-the-young-talent-and-cheap-contracts era. But if we're just taking back mediocre young talent and hoping to develop it along with our core, I don't see the real advantage. Mediocre talent can be had at any point in the process, I think.

 

[BluesRocker]

Agree and disagree. With a Gasol, Favors, Kanter rotation there's plenty of opportunity to develop Kanter.

Trading Al, etc. for picks/young talent is fine up to a point. The point is that they have to be well-above-average talent (top-10 pick, for example, or young stud clearly on the way up). If KOC can do that, I'm all for it. I'm just not sure it's all that possible. The whole league seems to have moved into a hoard-the-young-talent-and-cheap-contracts era. But if we're just taking back mediocre young talent and hoping to develop it along with our core, I don't see the real advantage. Mediocre talent can be had at any point in the process, I think.

Where is Millsap in all this?

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

This thread is going to look out of date when Enes Kanter starts kicking everybody's a$$ (including Pau's)......


Edit: And this will blow your mind, but Jefferson actually put up better numbers than Gasol and is several years younger.

 

[idiot]

Where is Millsap in all this?

You didn't read the OP?

 

[idiot]

This thread is going to look out of date when Enes Kanter starts kicking everybody's a$$ (including Pau's)......

Yes, hope so. But in Euros a year ago, Gasol was so far ahead of Enes. That's a gap that takes 2-3 years to close if it ever does.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I like the idea of Iggy because it rounds us out. But not Gasol. I really like Gasol but bringing him in doesnt make sense.

1. It doesnt clear room to develop Kanter

2. The timing just isnt right. I see so many people talking about trades but dont take in account the timing. We have to be honest with ourselves that our young core isnt ready to win a championship. Adding Gasol will make us better, but not good enough to win it all. By the time our core is ready Pau will be past his prime. Rendering his addition useless in the future. We need to add youth to grow with the team. We have to think long term. Jazzfanz just need to be patient. Lets not blow our load too early.

I would rather obtain a bad contract for Al and a future first(s) to go along with it. The worse the player coming back the better. So long as all Al's traded value went into the value of the future pick we got back. Or a promising young wing player. I just dont want to see someone come in here and take development time from Kanter all for a fake title run.

Manage expectations, make caculated risks and moves, think long term, invest in the future, and we will be so much better off.

It makes us have a 3 big rotation of Kanter, Gasol, and Favors. How does that not clear room?

 

[idiot]

Edit: And this will blow your mind, but Jefferson actually put up better numbers than Gasol and is several years younger.

Yes, I know. In fact, I think it's funny to see all these trade-machine evaluations we're generating by proposing trades with Jefferson, Millsap, or Harris. We almost ALWAYS come out on the losing end -- not just by one or two games, but by several -- 5-10 often.

Nevertheless, these predictions are based Hollinger's PER and just can't be trusted. I believe Gasol would be much better for the Jazz than Jefferson. I might be wrong, of course.

 

[BluesRocker]

You didn't read the OP?

It makes us have a 3 big rotation of Kanter, Gasol, and Favors. How does that not clear room?

I knew I was too high when I read that. Somehow I glossed over trading Millsap too. I think I thought I was in a different thread.

I think my point still stands with I dont know if its worth it to spend what we got on trying to win the championship noe with Pau. Im a huge Pau fan so I wouldnt complain too much.

 

[theNBAnerd]

This thread is going to look out of date when Enes Kanter starts kicking everybody's a$$ (including Pau's)......


Edit: And this will blow your mind, but Jefferson actually put up better numbers than Gasol and is several years younger.

and has roughly half the basketball IQ that pau has.

 

[BluesRocker]

and has roughly half the basketball IQ that pau has.

Agree.

 

[Brown Notes]

This thread is going to look out of date when Enes Kanter starts kicking everybody's a$$ (including Pau's)......


Edit: And this will blow your mind, but Jefferson actually put up better numbers than Gasol and is several years younger.

Al was an awesome fantasy basketball player. Seriously, though, I like him and am sure that he will continue to get better, but he needs some heavy coaching and ours are busy with two #3 picks. The hope for the Jazz is that those guys are quicker learners than Al.

Part of why Al still has value. A team that isn't stacked with youth could really benefit with that kind of guy. LeBron didn't post up until this year just as an example. Journeyman players do still improve.

 

[Revolution 9]

Yes, a starting line up of

Williams
Hayward
Igoudala
Favors
Gasol

w/ Kanter, Burks, Carroll, Tinsley, Evans, and Murphy as our main reserves.

would be straight nasty. Gasol and Iggy cost a lot, but they are only two year deals, so they expire when the Hayward and Favors need to be extended. If you could somehow flip that lineup into attracting Steve Nash, we have a legitimate title contender.

Some people may whine about the future, but I would rather have two years of strong contention w/ a solid back drop (We will still have our young 4 core and ability to sign FA in 2014).

I would "sacrifice the future" for a legit shot at a title.
Two years of actually being a contender would be worth it. Watching Favors and Gasol clog the lane would be hotter than any porn known to man.

 

[margodydek]

This thread is going to look out of date when Enes Kanter starts kicking everybody's a$$ (including Pau's)......


Edit: And this will blow your mind, but Jefferson actually put up better numbers than Gasol and is several years younger.

You realize Pau has been playing with Kobe Bryant, right?

 

[margodydek]

I've made my opinion on this matter clear in the past. I think our best chance of getting quality players here is through trades as opposed to HOPING someone agrees to come here during FA. I still think Pau is probably the 3rd best big in the league and I think playing 3rd fiddle to Kobe and Bynum would take a toll on any player, thus his apparent decline last year. I think you get him in a better situation and he'll dominate. I don't think there's anyway you could pull off getting both, but I do think KOC has the right assets (without giving up any of the young 4) to get one of the two. I'd take Pau first, but would be happy with either.

 

[Brown Notes]

I've made my opinion on this matter clear in the past. I think our best chance of getting quality players here is through trades as opposed to HOPING someone agrees to come here during FA. I still think Pau is probably the 3rd best big in the league and I think playing 3rd fiddle to Kobe and Bynum would take a toll on any player, thus his apparent decline last year. I think you get him in a better situation and he'll dominate. I don't think there's anyway you could pull off getting both, but I do think KOC has the right assets (without giving up any of the young 4) to get one of the two. I'd take Pau first, but would be happy with either.

The trouble with getting behind this is Gasol's actual value around the league. He got traded for Chrissy before $tern axed it. That's huge value. Utah will never have that player without breaking up the young core, and I don't get why this isn't part of the discussion. It is not just about how good Pau is. I don't want the L's to get any of our young guys. It'd make me puke almost as much as my wife's cats.

edit: I sound like I didn't read your post, Marg. I see that you believe we could acquire him without breaking up the youth but disagree.

 

[margodydek]

The trouble with getting behind this is Gasol's actual value around the league. He got traded for Chrissy before $tern axed it. That's huge value. Utah will never have that player without breaking up the young core, and I don't get why this isn't part of the discussion. It is not just about how good Pau is. I don't want the L's to get any of our young guys. It'd make me puke almost as much as my wife's cats.

edit: I sound like I didn't read your post, Marg. I see that you believe we could acquire him without breaking up the youth but disagree.

You may be right, but I do think if KOC called Kupchak and offered Harris, Millsap and a future 1st, Kupchak would at least tell KOC that he'd run it by Mr. Buss. I have a feeling that LA is a little desperate to shed Pau's mammoth contract. I think they'd like young potential, but the thought of completely clearing that cap space would be enticing as well.

And I still think my 3-teamer would have legs if it was ever discussed between the GMs - Al to Philly, Iggy to LA and Pau comes here.

 

[Brown Notes]

My 3 teamer looks like this:

AI>Pacers
Granger>Utah
Jefferson>76ers

Gasol>Hell

Edit: It's a good thing Hell doesn't have a team cuz they get all the best players.

 

[idiot]

The trouble with getting behind this is Gasol's actual value around the league.

This is certainly a good point, in theory. But when you look at what's being thrown around as rumors for Gasol (Derrick Williams, Josh Smith), a Millsap-Harris combination really doesn't look that bad from the point of view of the Lakers. If they value 2013 cap space and if they value maximizing production from both PF & PG, and if they value players who fit with team they currently have, they may not find anything better on offer. Of course, they just may decide that if they don't find anything they like now, they'll stick with Gasol and revisit things later. But I'm not seeing a lot of ideas currently that make a lot more sense for the Lakers.

 

[Brown Notes]

The Laker's problem isn't their roster, it's going from Phil Jackson to Mike Brown. Pau isn't holding them back. He's not a must-move player.

If you trade away a dominant player, even at 32 or whatever, you have to get back another star or something with the potential to become one. IOW they would be morons to accept those 2 guys even if they are pretty good. Neither Harris nor Millsap is a dominant player. In this scenario the Lakers would be obliged to demand a high pick or one of the young guys.

 

[idiot]

The Laker's problem isn't their roster, it's going from Phil Jackson to Mike Brown. Pau isn't holding them back. He's not a must-move player.

If you trade away a dominant player, even at 32 or whatever, you have to get back another star or something with the potential to become one. IOW they would be morons to accept those 2 guys even if they are pretty good. Neither Harris nor Millsap is a dominant player. In this scenario the Lakers would be obliged to demand a high pick or one of the young guys.

I don't disagree. I admit that the possibility of getting Gasol is low. If those are the only options, I'd probably stand pat. But I don't think a draft pick (unless very likely top-4) or Derrick Williams is very enticing, either. Lakers are in too much of a win-now mode.

But, if they feel they have to blow the Gasol/Kobe/Bynum dynamic up, I'm just saying that Millsap-Harris is arguably as good as any other realistic possibility I've been hearing about.