jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
It would be a pretty strange kind of world, let alone discussion board, if making inferences or assumptions were inappropriate. I know well what I'm talking about, but I have serious doubts about you.
Affordable Care?
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It would be a pretty strange kind of world, let alone discussion board, if making inferences or assumptions were inappropriate. I know well what I'm talking about, but I have serious doubts about you.
As you have so aptly not shown in this thread. Very well done.
Is that the trolling response you were looking for?
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
You evidently lack the historical content to speak knowledgable on this topic.
For the record, and as my last comment on the matter, I believe, and I am highly confident, that history will prove me right, that years from now, Obamacare will be seen as one of the most significant progressive reforms of our time, much like social security, Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, etc. are seen today as some of the most significant progressive reforms of their time.
The fact is also that for every single significant progressive reform over time (I’ve provided a sampling in my earlier post) that sought to make this country more equitable and fair, to enshrine the principles of human dignity, to extend civil rights and liberties to all, to protect the weak against entrenched economic and social forces, to shift the balance of power somewhat in the direction of the powerless, to ensure the ability to participate freely and as equal members in the social, economic, and political realm, and to provide for the basic needs and safety net for all has been opposed by a shifting coalition of conservative forces representing the entrenched power structure and abetted at different times by ideologues of different stripes, traditional and dogmatic religion, racists, bigots, well-meaning principled people, and other forces. Usually these forces have predicted some version of social or economic doomsday should the progressive reform be approved—a doomsday that has universally failed to materialize. More, in hindsight and outside of a relatively small number of angry ideologues, society has also nearly universally reached general consensus after the fact that the reform in question was actually a good thing after all.
The march of US history is toward the extension of civil rights and liberties, social and economic protections, provision of basic needs, etc. to ALL of its citizens. Those who have fought this process have consistently been on the wrong side of this history, and those who continue to fight it will, extrapolating from experience, again be on the wrong side of history. The extension of health care access to all citizens is a natural extension of this process. To say that Babe and others who fought so hard to derail universal health care access are on the wrong side of history seems to me to be a rather straightforward conclusion.
It amazes me that you can be so close to the truth and yet still walk lock step in time to the Dems beat.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
Of course not. With over 10,000 posts in little over two years, you're obviously the board's know-it-all. The Cliff Clavin of Jazzfanz.
I'm beyond expecting any good faith, non-aholish response from you.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
I think you have no frigg'n idea what you're talking about.
Let's begin with this. I'm not a Democrat.
As I am beyond expecting any rational thought from you. Continue to preach your liberal talking points brother!
And yet every topic that comes up you are in line with their talking points. Also for the record the repubs are a similar evil. I am not defending them as much as I am having fun at your expense.
As for how Obamacare will be view in the future. Well that all comes down to personal perspective. I am sure some will view it as you have said. I am willing to bet that a sizeable portion will not view it that way as well.
Do people still say that social security is a good thing?
https://www.deseretnews.com/article...-life-The-social-costs-of-fewer-families.html
Society is trending towards less and less children. Less children mean less people to pay for healthcare, social security, etc. If the trend continues, then we will reach a breaking point.
Just because something has worked out in the past doesn't guarantee it will in the future.
The Congressional Budget Office has determined that over 7 million people will be cut from employer provided health care as it will be cheaper for employers to pay the penalty rather than insure their employees due to changes implemented by Obamacare.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/blo...3/feb/5/obama-health-law-will-cost-7-million/
https://www.washingtontimes.com/blo...3/feb/5/obama-health-law-will-cost-7-million/
candrew
Well-Known Member
Thus creating an overwhealming demand to expand Obamacare to a Single Payer System?
Maybe this was the desired effect.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
One can only hope
our current system of, "Don't get sick or else you're screwed" is easily thee worst system in the world.
It's amazing to me that the wealthiest country in the world has such a backwards system. And that we have billions to piss away in the middle east yet we don't even value our own citizenry enough to provide them with health care.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
This coming from a guy who claimed for weeks and weeks that Romney was going to win and belittled anyone else with a different opinion??? HILARIOUS!
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
And yet we keep spending more and more in defense...
Curious.
Why aren't these same concerns over money (ever) ever looked under the same microscope that repubs do with SS, education, or health care?
The Constitution spells out the fed's responsibility for defense. It says nothing about SS, education or health care.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Oh really? The Constitution says nothing about the Air Force. So if we were to take everything "literally" then the Air Force would be declared unConstitutional. Plus, "defense" is so vague. A term that could be used for anything.... AS you repubs have cleverly done so well over the past few years. You're "defending" us by checking our emails. Or by invading Iraq... Which... WTF? Had nothing to do with anything.
Is this really what the FF had in mind?
The bottom line is this, if we REALLY want to tackle the "debt" problem then why wouldn't you want to check out the defense spending? Scat, do you really believe there isn't waste there? There isn't fraud? There aren't folks taking advantage of the blank checks that we send to them annually?
Your (fake patriotism) of "defending" of the Constitution is a blatant punch in the face of the Constitution as you refuse to analyze what should be analyzed and cut what most likely is in MOST need of cutting.
What we need aren't more partisan dirtbags. What we need are REAL Patriots that aren't afraid to shake things up and look at things logically and rationally regardless of special interest or party. I think we'll find that the department which has seen a DOUBLING in funding over the past decade probably is wasting far more money than you think. Our current health care system, is a complete joke.
If we have money to piss away in Iraq and Afghanistan then by damn we have enough money to give Americans health care. That's just so damn obvious it's amazing that repubs still can't see this even after their *** whooping just a few months ago. Time to focus on America folks. If you folks continue to just bitch, obstruct, and offer zero realistic alternatives, then you'll lose again in 2016.
Fake patriotism? **** you.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Absolutely.
Just follow your "own" logic here. So because "defense" is mentioned in the Constitution then it shouldn't be looked at or cut? Soooo it shouldn't be made more effective? Pork shouldn't be cut? But should remain bloated and expensive?
You call "entitlement" spending logically unsustainable. Yet... Spending over 4 times as much on defense as China or 8 times as much as Russia is?
Gee, thanks so much for caring about the welfare of our country.
You bitch about the Constitution yet make NO mention of the war in Iraq or Patriot Act? Why is that? Because Sean Hannity hasn't allowed you to?
Fake Patriotism might be an understatement describing you and your obstructionist buddies in DC. Perhaps traitors might be more accurate?
If "welfare" of the people doesn't somehow include health care then I don't know what is. It's pretty obvious that we've entered the "Great Depression" of health care. Desperately, MILLIONS of Americans either uninsured, going bankrupt, or refused health care, or dropped from their greedy as hell insurance companies need intervention from the federal government. Obamacare, as mentioned before, will go down in history as a significant step in the right direction. Perhaps it is the "New Deal" that will help bring us out of the "Great Depression" of ridiculous premium hikes, pre-conditions, and insurance write offs that have screwed over so many Americans.
Forget compassion, use logic. Why should only the most healthy and most well to do receive health care while those who need it the most be refused? I see no logical or moral explanation for refusing people with pre-conditions. Yes, I get it, insurance companies want to make money. But a healthy society, in the LONG TERM will benefit us far more than a short term view of instant profits by refusing to cover those sick.
This.
And a thousand other things "wrong" with it, do indeed seem to point to this intent. . . . .
Great talking points, but Obamacare and other Federal "solutions" aren't taking us in the right direction, either.
Our unconstitutional "two-party" system isn't a real two party system at all. There are fascists who call themselves democrats, and others who are DINOs too, as well as fascists who call themselves republicans, and other kinds of RINOs as well, and we have a major media "priesthood" who consider it their duty to direct the American mind to better suit the fatcat management team behind the scenes of it all.
Oh, and there are a few poor maladjusted folks who still think ordinary people can have a say in the Government of the Cartels, by the Cartels, and for the Cartels.
"Obamacare" was written by insurance industry moguls, major medical providers, major pharmaceutical folks, and a few well-connected government officeholders, totally beholden to the foresaid for their campaign financing. It was claimed by the lying Press that this was to solve the existing problems, cover the uncovered, etc etc. . . . but all any patient had to say to get all the care they needed, is "uninsured", and the "insured" would eventually pay the tab. It was claimed by the lying politicians that that "the Affordable Care Act" would reduce costs by implementing efficiencies dictated from the the government managers, but every claim was a knowing, huge, lie. Some folks wanted to stick it to the insurance companies, whose reputation for meanness is well deserved, but the insurance companies had their people involved in writing the bill, and it turns out they get to raise their premiums to cover all the increased costs of this government "efficiency".
We were told this would not involve any increase in taxes, but the fact is, the lying SCPTUS dug deep and used the claim that the government has the taxing power to skirt around other fundamental constitutional issues. Effectively justifying all the politicians who voted for it, for being liars when they fooled their constituents in telling them it would save them money. . . . and would not be a tax increase. . . .
"Obamacare" is a huge fatcat handout, and we're going to pay for it. A huge transfer of wealth from the poor to the wealthy. And it makes the trillion dollar bank bailout "handouts" look like chump change.