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Al Jefferson is Vegan!

This vegan says his monthly grocery bills are 100$ higher since he switched.

https://www.thebillfold.com/2014/11/the-cost-of-being-vegan/

"People who give financial advice like to suggest that you go vegan, vegetarian, or at least celebrate Meatless Monday as a cost-cutting measure. As a vegan for two years and counting, this particular tip always makes me laugh.

Yes, rice and beans cost less than meat and cheese. But if you’ve given up meat and dairy products for environmental, health, spiritual, or moral reasons, you probably miss many of the foods that you used to enjoy. And you probably find that the soy/rice/almond/coconut-based alternatives are far more expensive than the real thing."
 
MVP said:
This vegan says his monthly grocery bills are 100$ higher since he switched.

https://www.thebillfold.com/2014/11/the-cost-of-being-vegan/

"People who give financial advice like to suggest that you go vegan, vegetarian, or at least celebrate Meatless Monday as a cost-cutting measure. As a vegan for two years and counting, this particular tip always makes me laugh.

Yes, rice and beans cost less than meat and cheese. But if you’ve given up meat and dairy products for environmental, health, spiritual, or moral reasons, you probably miss many of the foods that you used to enjoy. And you probably find that the soy/rice/almond/coconut-based alternatives are far more expensive than the real thing."
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How much cheaper on the grocery bill is it to hunt humans I don't like?
 
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MVP said:
Well to be on poor and unbalanced vegan diet may be cheaper, lol ( beans and soy are cheap and not very healthy). But if you try to get nutritionally adequate diet including all supplements it gets pricey as with vegan diet you need to eat way more. Fruits and nuts are expensive, organic vegetables are expensive, quinoa and other super grains are expensive as well.
For example to get same amount of calcium what you get from cup of milk you need 16 cups of spinach. 100 gr of beef vs 500 gr of quinoa for same amount of protein ( which is not providing all necessary amino acids BTW). Already mentioned how much flaxseed oil you would need compared to tiny amount of fish oils. Add supplement costs. If you eat out - it will get even worse.
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Well you still need to eat most those things you listed to be healthy whether or not your vegan. Also beans are very healthy as is soy. Organic vegetables are not required to be vegan. Spinach is very cheap. Quinoa can also be very cheap, although some places over charge for it. Vegetables in general are fairly cheap. A B12 supplement is very cheap. Fruit is cheap and you should eat it to be healthy regardless of being vegan. Nuts can be expensive but they are also very healthy and good for everyone to eat.

But yes eating healthy as a vegan can get expensive, just like eating healthy can get expensive for everyone.

The biggest difference between vegan and vegetarian is mostly dairy products which have debatable health benefits. Especially considering a very large portion of people can't properly digest lactose.

which is not providing all necessary amino acids BTW
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it's not hard to get your essential amino acids through different food that complements each other. You don't even have to eat foods in the same meal to get a complete protein and your essential amino acids. But quinoa does provide all essential amino acids. The ones your body doesn't produce.
 
If you want to go with dairy milk for your calcium instead of soy or almond milk you would have to drink twice as much. That would also give you way more sugar from dairy milk,, which is bad for you.

Heavy forbid you have olive oil to get your omega 3s or canola oil, both very popular in cooking. Or lots of other options but since you brought up flax seed lets stick with that. "One ounce of flax seeds packs in 6388mg of Omega 3 (nearly 6 times the RDA)" The other problem with your whole argument here is that almost everything vegans eat has some amount of omega 3s. Plus the fact that the reason people want so much of it is for the heart health but the best way to be more heart healthy is to eat more vegetables and eat less sugar and less red meat.
 
Tak said:
“Very simply, there are some nutrient requirements that we cannot get just consuming plant-derived foods,” says Hall, one of the authors of the study. “It rather speaks to us evolving as omnivores.”

Article:
https://qz.com/1131428/if-the-entire-us-went-vegan-itd-be-a-public-health-disaster/

Study abstract:
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2017/11/15/1707322114.abstract
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Yeah, no **** if the entire US switched diets it would be a problem. That is true regardless of what it is to. No one is suggesting everyone switch to vegan in here, so that opinion piece is not relevant.

It also made me laugh that he mentioned vitamin d as an issue.

The entire US already fortifies many foods for health reasons. Including fortifying milk with vitamin d.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Also beans are very healthy as is soy.
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Very questionable. Especially soy. Especially for men. There is a theory that asian men have such small penises compared to the rest of the world because of years of consumption of soy in those countries.

Soy Dangers Summarized
High levels of phytic acid in soy reduce assimilation of calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and zinc. Phytic acid in soy is not neutralized by ordinary preparation methods such as soaking, sprouting, and long, slow cooking, but only with long fermentation. High-phytate diets have caused growth problems in children.
Trypsin inhibitors in soy interfere with protein digestion and may cause pancreatic disorders. In test animals, soy containing trypsin inhibitors caused stunted growth.
Soy phytoestrogens disrupt endocrine function and have the potential to cause infertility and to promote breast cancer in adult women.
Soy phytoestrogens are potent anti-thyroid agents that cause hypothyroidism and may cause thyroid cancer. In infants, consumption of soy formula has been linked to autoimmune thyroid disease.
Vitamin B12 analogs in soy are not absorbed and actually increase the body's requirement for B12.
Soy foods increase the body's requirement for Vitamin D. Toxic synthetic Vitamin D2 is added to soy milk.
Fragile proteins are over-denatured during high temperature processing to make soy protein isolate and textured vegetable protein.
Processing of soy protein results in the formation of toxic lysinoalanine and highly carcinogenic nitrosamines.
Free glutamic acid or MSG, a potent neurotoxin, is formed during soy food processing and additional amounts are added to many soy foods to mask soy's unpleasant taste.
Soy foods contain high levels of aluminum, which is toxic to the nervous system and the kidneys.
 
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Siro said:
We have a loud vegan at work. Some time ago, I was minding my own business having a sandwich, he sits next to me and goes "you know that humans have canines to peel fruits, not to eat meat, right?". Totally unprompted. He took it upon himself to volunteer that piece of misinformation. I argued with him a bit, he got annoyed, and walked away.
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that is what i hate about vegans.

i eat kosher i only tell people i dont eat x or y when they offer it i refuse and they ask why.
ussually when you reufuse they dont ask why. so dont have to be an *******.

but i never tell people to not eat x or y or how bad it is according to me or my religion
 
Ron Mexico said:
If you want to go with dairy milk for your calcium instead of soy or almond milk you would have to drink twice as much. That would also give you way more sugar from dairy milk,, which is bad for you.

Heavy forbid you have olive oil to get your omega 3s or canola oil, both very popular in cooking. Or lots of other options but since you brought up flax seed lets stick with that. "One ounce of flax seeds packs in 6388mg of Omega 3 (nearly 6 times the RDA)"
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Ron, why are you ignoring bioavailability and quality on purpose? " Plant-based omega-3 (found in flaxseed, flaxseed oil, chia seeds, walnuts and leafy greens, for example) contain alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), a shorter-chained PUFA consisting of 18 carbons. They are completely devoid of DHA and EPA".

"Typically, less than 1 percent of the ALA is converted to EPA. Some studies have found the conversion rate to be as 0.1 to 0.5 percent".

Read again, please.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/...11/omega-3-from-plants-vs-marine-animals.aspx

Flax seed has the most omega 3 compared to olive or canola oil and you would still need 20X more than fish oil to get the same amount. Olive oil - probably 50X more. Unreasonable. Mother nature tells you the best is fish oil, why would one bother literally drinking olive oil to get same amount of Omega 3 instead of few drops of fish oil?
 
MVP said:
Ron, why are you ignoring bioavailability and quality on purpose? " Plant-based omega-3 (found in flaxseed, flaxseed oil, chia seeds, walnuts and leafy greens, for example) contain alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), a shorter-chained PUFA consisting of 18 carbons. They are completely devoid of DHA and EPA".

"Typically, less than 1 percent of the ALA is converted to EPA. Some studies have found the conversion rate to be as 0.1 to 0.5 percent".

Read again, please.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/...11/omega-3-from-plants-vs-marine-animals.aspx

Flax seed has the most omega 3 compared to olive or canola oil and you would still need 20X more than fish oil to get the same amount. Olive oil - probably 50X more. Unreasonable. Mother nature tells you the best is fish oil, why would one bother literally drinking olive oil to get same amount of Omega 3 instead of few drops of fish oil?
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You don't need that much Omega 3. You get enough from the things I listed. Excess amounts of Omega 3 are not required. Eating fish regularly presents it's own problems in many areas. Besides lots of cultures throughout history have not eaten fish and been just fine. A lot of people now don't eat fish and are just fine. It is not required to be healthy.
 
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MVP said:
Very questionable. Especially soy. Especially for men. There is a theory that asian men have such small penises compared to the rest of the world because of years of consumption of soy in those countries.

Soy Dangers Summarized
High levels of phytic acid in soy reduce assimilation of calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and zinc. Phytic acid in soy is not neutralized by ordinary preparation methods such as soaking, sprouting, and long, slow cooking, but only with long fermentation. High-phytate diets have caused growth problems in children.
Trypsin inhibitors in soy interfere with protein digestion and may cause pancreatic disorders. In test animals, soy containing trypsin inhibitors caused stunted growth.
Soy phytoestrogens disrupt endocrine function and have the potential to cause infertility and to promote breast cancer in adult women.
Soy phytoestrogens are potent anti-thyroid agents that cause hypothyroidism and may cause thyroid cancer. In infants, consumption of soy formula has been linked to autoimmune thyroid disease.
Vitamin B12 analogs in soy are not absorbed and actually increase the body's requirement for B12.
Soy foods increase the body's requirement for Vitamin D. Toxic synthetic Vitamin D2 is added to soy milk.
Fragile proteins are over-denatured during high temperature processing to make soy protein isolate and textured vegetable protein.
Processing of soy protein results in the formation of toxic lysinoalanine and highly carcinogenic nitrosamines.
Free glutamic acid or MSG, a potent neurotoxin, is formed during soy food processing and additional amounts are added to many soy foods to mask soy's unpleasant taste.
Soy foods contain high levels of aluminum, which is toxic to the nervous system and the kidneys.
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Beans are healthy including soy beans, even for men. The estrogen issue is only if you eat an extreme amount of soy that is beyond what people will/can eat.

I didn't make it past your Asian penis theory.

This discussion is getting too silly for me. I'm out.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Beans are healthy including soy beans, even for men. The estrogen issue is only if you eat an extreme amount of soy that is beyond what people will/can eat.

I didn't make it past your Asian penis theory.

This discussion is getting too silly for me. I'm out.
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Not extreme amounts. 3 quarts of soy milk a day made this guy to grow boobs.

https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/soys-negative-effects


James Price’s breasts had been painful and swollen. It looked as if gum balls were implanted underneath each nipple. The slightest touch triggered throbs.

For Price, a retired U.S. Army intelligence officer who once flew attack helicopters in Vietnam, these changes were more than just physically uncomfortable.

“Men aren’t supposed to have breasts,” he says today in a quiet Texas drawl. “It was like my body was feminizing.”

A lean and wiry man, the breast development stood in stark contrast to the rest of his body. But it was not Price's only symptom.

His beard growth had slowed, he’d lost hair from his arms, chest, and legs, and he’d stopped waking up with morning erections.

“My sexual desire disappeared,” he says. “My penis—I won’t say it atrophied, but it was so flaccid that it looked very small in comparison with the way it used to be. Even my emotions changed.”
 
Ron Mexico said:
Beans are healthy including soy beans, even for men. The estrogen issue is only if you eat an extreme amount of soy that is beyond what people will/can eat.

I didn't make it past your Asian penis theory.

This discussion is getting too silly for me. I'm out.
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The phytic acid issue is legit. I know it's MVP you're responding to, and I know you think you've got the scoop on health, etc., but your casual response here is simply wrong.
 
NAOS said:
The phytic acid issue is legit. I know it's MVP you're responding to, and I know you think you've got the scoop on health, etc., but your casual response here is simply wrong.
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Most of the studies and attacks on soy are funded by the dairy association or quacks like Mercola. Soy does not have a higher level of phytic acid than wheat and rice and lot of other foods consumed regularly. Soy is a very healthy food. Like most foods I think you should get a broad variety and not consume too much of one item but there is almost no risk of eating soy regularly.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Most of the studies and attacks on soy are funded by the dairy association or quacks like Mercola. Soy does not have a higher level of phytic acid than wheat and rice and lot of other foods consumed regularly. Soy is a very healthy food. Like most foods I think you should get a broad variety and not consume too much of one item but there is almost no risk of eating soy regularly.
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You're simply wrong. Evidence is ****ing clear in long-term studies. So, the variable that you've missed is TIME, which a lot of american studies mess up. The door is closed on this, brough. Sorry.
 
Ron Mexico said:
3 quarts a day is excessive of soy milk. This story is anecdotal. Also you are quoting Mercola as a source of information. That is not a good source and his information is not well respected by experts in the industry.
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While I don't agree with his views on vaccinations and homeopathy his nutritional research is very sound. As with any source you can read through it and make your own conclusions. What in the article about marine vs plant omega-3 is not correct in your opinion?
 
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