All-Time NBA Draft Round 2: One Love vs. Jeffrey32

[Elizah Huge]

Team One Love:

PG - Tim Hardaway / Kyrie Irving
SG - Clyde Drexler / Paul George / Brandon Roy
SF - Dominique Wilkins / Carmelo Anthony
PF - Dirk Nowitzki / LaMarcus Aldridge
C - Tim Duncan / Yao Ming / Tyson Chandler

Team Jeffrey32:

PG - Magic Johnson / Lenny Wilkens
SG - Kobe Bryant / Sidney Moncrief / Drazen Petrovic
SF - Chris Mullin / Dan Majerle
PF - Charles Barkley / Pau Gasol / Jerry Lucas
C - Alonzo Mourning / Marc Gasol



Jeffrey32's Case:

n/a

One Love's Case:

Philosophy

- Strong Defensive Presence Inside (Duncan, Yao, Chandler)

- Strong Inside Scorers (Duncan, Nowitzki, Yao, LaMarcus)

- Most talented wing scorers in the history of the game (Dominique, Drexler, Carmelo)

Point Guard

The HOF Tim Hardaway is best known for his killer crossover and will match up very well against Magic. In their only playoff match-up (1991) in 5 games:

Tim Hardaway: 26.8 points, 12.8 assists, 3.8 steals, 2 TOV

Magic Johnson: 25.8 points, 12.8 assists, 0.8 steals, 3 TOV

Hardaway matched up very well against Magic scoring an average of 26.8 points, the same assists # and 3 more steals.

Numbers don't lie.

Tim Hardaway is an experienced but explosive player at the PG position. Hardaway is also a solid 3 point shooter who shoots 35.5% over the course of his career.

Shooting Guard

Clyde "the glide" Drexler. One of the best SG to have ever played the game. At 6'7, clyde is more than a match for the 6'6 Kobe. Offensively Drexler will handle the ball, making plays for others and for himself. Best Stats: 27.2pts, 7.9rebs, 5.8assists.

Small Forward

The Hall of Fame Dominique Wilkins vs Majerle.. wow this is a mismatch. Majerle has never guarded anybody like Wilkins. Best Stats: 30.7pts, 6.4rebs, 2.6assists and is 1 of 7 players in NBA history to average at least 25 points per game for 10 consecutive seasons. 12th All Time Scorer in History. He will run the floor with the playmaking Drexler and Hardaway and score easily in transition.

Power Forward

Dirk Nowitzki - future HOF, the best "stretch-4" the NBA has ever seen. Nowitzki is ranked as the 7th All-Time Scorer in the NBA history and is 17th All-Time in 3 pointers made.

In this match-up the Duncan/Nowitzki tandem will work perfectly giving the team the inside/outside punch. Nowitzki's ability to stretch the floor will draw the 6'6 Barkley out to the perimeter, negating his rebounding ability down low. Closer to the hoop, the 7'0 Nowitzki can 'rise above' and shoot over the 6'6 Barkley.

Nowitzki will bother Barkley defensively with his 7'0 frame. Neither Barkley nor Mourning can score from the perimeter so Duncan and Nowitzki can simply pack the paint.

Center

Tim Duncan. The ultimate team player offensively and defensively. Has a total of 5 Championship rings to his name.

Mourning is a good defender, but Duncan will find ways to score against him, in their head-to-head match-ups the numbers are (in 10 matches):

Duncan: 21 points, 10.9 rebounds, 1.7 blocks, 2.3 assists

Mourning: 9.2 points, 4.9 rebounds, 1.1 blocks, 1.1 assist

Duncan clearly has the upper hand in their match-ups both offensively (21 points) and defensively (holding Mourning to 9.2 points).

Bench

- Carmelo Anthony - Unstoppable Force / Prolific Scorer

- LaMarcus Aldridge - The best Stretch 4 in the game today

- Paul George - Will match Petrovic or Moncrief defensively

- Kyrie Irving - Dynamic Scorer, 39% career three point shooter

The bench is where this team will dominate. One of the most talented bench in this competition. Too much scoring. Too much length. Extremely versatile. Double one player - the other would score with ease.

Conclusion

1) Duncan/Nowitzki will dominate Barkley/Mourning

2) Hardaway matched up very well against Magic historically

3) Offensively Elite Bench with Carmelo, Aldridge, George and Kyrie

4) Tim Duncan the X-Factor 5-Time Champion

 

[Jeffrey32]

JEFFREY32 WRITE-UP

STARTERS
Magic Johnson
Kobe Bryant
Chris Mullin
Charles Barkley
Alonzo Mourning

BENCH
Lenny Wilkens
Sidney Moncrief
Drazen Petrovic
Dan Majerle
Pau Gasol
Jerry Lucas
Marc Gasol


BACKCOURT: Magic + Kobe v. Irving + Drexler
Magic’s Lakers teams dominated Drexler’s Blazers in the ‘80s (28-9 regular season; 12-6 playoffs) and I don’t think this will be any different. Kyrie never even played in a playoff game until Lebron, so I think he is a boy among men in this game, especially starting. Magic would demolish him, especially considering the below-average defense he plays. Kobe has easily surpassed Drexler as a better 2-guard in history and anything Drexler brings to the table Kobe could match or beat.


FORWARDS: Mullin + Barkley v. Wilkins + Nowitzki
Based on flash and pure scoring Wilkins would seem to outplay Mullin, but let’s not forget USA Basketball put Mullin on the OG Dream Team over Wilkins. I am also comforted by, in head to head match-ups, while Wilkins averaged 27, Mullin’s teams were 13-8 against Wilkins and Mullin shot a whopping %56 from 3. Barkley v. Nowitzki is a good match-up as I don’t think you could find more polar opposite skillsets in PFs. While they both will score and score differently, I think they edge goes to Barkley because not only does Barkley have the foot-speed to guard Dirk on the perimeter and Dirk can’t handle Barkley’s post game, but Barkley is by far a more dominant rebounder (14 v. 4 rpg in head to head) and that is where Sir Charles wins the match-up and helps the team win.


CENTERS: Duncan never faced Mourning in his prime. At that stage, Mourning was post Kidney surgery backing up Shaq in Miami, but still giving it everything he got. I was very tempted to start Marc Gasol because he has proven to match well against Duncan, especially in the playoffs, statistically outscoring and rebounding him, but Mourning is obviously a legendary defensive force and in his prime would make Duncan work. As we saw statistically in the last round (thanks to Log), Mourning in his prime almost matched even in real-life head-to-head match-ups with Hakeem, so I imagine he would do the same with Duncan. I’d give the overall talent edge to Duncan in the match-up, but with my ability to throw Mourning, Marc, and even Pau at him, he will be in for a long night at both ends of the floor.

 

[Jeffrey32]

I didn't know One Love was starting Hardaway over Irving. I think that is a smart move, but Magic is still the most winning PG ever (absent of Cousy). What won love left out is that Magic beat Hardaway 4-1 in that playoff series, which was Magic's last year before his HIV retirement and in their regular season match-ups '89-91, an old Magic still outplayed him:

Magic Johnson 10 7 3 9 35.6 6.2 12.9 .481 0.4 2.9 .138 6.5 7.4 .878 1.8 6.2 8.0 12.8 1.1 0.2 3.1 2.5 19.3
Tim Hardaway 10 3 7 9 34.6 6.4 14.5 .441 0.7 2.1 .333 2.7 3.7 .730 1.1 2.5 3.6 8.3 2.3 0.0 2.8 3.2 16.2

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Love the one two punch of Dirk and Duncan. Everything starts and ends with those two. Between Dirks Clutchness and Duncan's winning acumen. Wow.

Not sure how well magic and Kobe play together, but that could just be me overthinking it a bit. Can't tell. Someone help me out with that.

 

[Jazz and Utes]

Magic and kobe would play beautifully together, Kobe has a bad rep for not getting along with other players but the players he doesn't get along with don't work as hard as he does....I don't think that would be the case with a Magic

 

[The Midnight]

Dominique Wilkins vs Chris Mullen


Didn't know Jeffrey32 was going to start Mullen (he came off the bench in the previous match). But Wilkins played against Mullen 21 games between 1985-1997 and the results are heavily in favour of Wilkins:


Dominique: 27 points, 3.2 assists, 7.8 rebounds, 1.8 steals

Chris Mullen: 21.7 points, 4.7 assists, 4.7 rebounds, 1 steal


Clearly Dominique dominated the match-up on average over the course of their careers.

 

[The Midnight]

Hardaway < Magic
Drexler = Kobe
Dominique > Mullen
Dirk = Barkley
Duncan > Mourning

Starters: 2:1 to me

Irving > Wilkens
George+Roy = Moncrief+Drazen
Anthony > Majerle
Aldridge = P.Gasol
Chandler+Yao = M.Gasol+Lucas

Bench: 2:0 to me

 

[Dr. Jones]

I voted jeffrey

 

[Jazz and Utes]

I will most likely be voting One Love but Kobe>Drexler

 

[RandyForRubio]

One Love easily has the most talent, but its a team full of ball stoppers. With that said, Tim Duncan and Dirk is a great match, and I don't see Jeffrey beating that. As for W-L comparison among players, it's incredibly overrated. Basketball is a team sport, I mean, nobody is going to argue that Steph Curry is better than Bron because GS won.

 

[Jeffrey32]

Dominique Wilkins vs Chris Mullen


Didn't know Jeffrey32 was going to start Mullen (he came off the bench in the previous match). But Wilkins played against Mullen 21 games between 1985-1997 and the results are heavily in favour of Wilkins:


Dominique: 27 points, 3.2 assists, 7.8 rebounds, 1.8 steals

Chris Mullen: 21.7 points, 4.7 assists, 4.7 rebounds, 1 steal


Clearly Dominique dominated the match-up on average over the course of their careers.

Wouldn't say heavily favored for Wilkins at all considering while Wilkins averaged 27, Mullin’s teams were 13-8 against Wilkins and Mullin shot a whopping %56 from 3. Considering this isn't a one-on-one match-up and is about the team, I think Mullin is much more effective for my starting line-up than Wilkins is for OL's. Mullin is 4th or 5th option on offense and just has to be ready to nail his smooth jumper at all time. In real life he shot 56% from three against Wilkins, imagine what Mullin will do and how much space he will have to fire when OL's relatively weak defensive team has to worry about Magic, Kobe, and Barkley.

 

[Jeffrey32]

Hardaway < Magic
Drexler = Kobe
Dominique > Mullen
Dirk = Barkley
Duncan > Mourning

Starters: 2:1 to me

Irving > Wilkens
George+Roy = Moncrief+Drazen
Anthony > Majerle
Aldridge = P.Gasol
Chandler+Yao = M.Gasol+Lucas

Bench: 2:0 to me

That is just crazy!

Kobe is better than Drexler. Kobe will be second best shooting guard of all-time. 5 rings to 1. 3rd all-time scorer and counting. Drexler got to finals twice and once was as geriatric. Kobe 7x. Drexler would maybe crack the Top 5 on a good day, but a lot of the players in today's game will pass him by. None will surpass Kobe.

Barkley is better than Dirk. This is probably the biggest debate in this match, but I think most people would take Barkley over Dirk and I certainly would. Dirk cannot guard Barkley at all.

Mullin may not be able to take Wilkins one-on-one, but he is better in the team concept, which is why he made the Dream Team over Wilkins.

Duncan is better than Mourning no question. Mourning defense will bother Duncan though.

Saying Kyrie Irving better than Lenny Wilkens is just saying you don't know anything about the history of basketball. Wilkens is one of the smartest minds the game has ever seen and was only outmatched in his day at PG by Oscar Robertson. Irving would be lucky if he retired with the accomplishments that Wilkens had as a player.

The Gasol Brothers will both be first ballot HOFs. I am not sure the same will be said of Aldridge and Chandler. I'm not sure either of those guys will even make it to the hall.

The only match-up off the bench that I would give you is Anthony v. Majerle, but I'm not sure there would be anyone on the bench that could play well with Anthony. You have no distributor off the bench, so it will just be a lot of watch Kyrie, Anthony, or George go one and one.

 

[Jeffrey32]

Not sure how well magic and Kobe play together, but that could just be me overthinking it a bit. Can't tell. Someone help me out with that.

Magic played with many HOFs and made them better. Playing with Magic only helped Kareem and Worthy's careers. Magic is the greatest team player ever and would have no problem playing with Kobe. I am sure they have played with and against each other a lot in the Lakers training facility and would know exactly how to play best together.

 

[Miggs]

Close one but I voted Jeffrey because I hate OneLove's bench. Outside of Paul George and Tyson Chandler, those bench players are awful on defense and Carmelo and Aldridge are two black holes who will chuck away.

 

[The Midnight]

Magic played with many HOFs and made them better. Playing with Magic only helped Kareem and Worthy's careers. Magic is the greatest team player ever and would have no problem playing with Kobe. I am sure they have played with and against each other a lot in the Lakers training facility and would know exactly how to play best together.

No question Magic is a special player, but as I have shown, in their playoffs series, regardless of the W-L which depends on the teams, Hardaway was able to match Magic punch for punch, scoring more, having the same # of assists and getting a whopping 3 more steals. Even the regular seasons stats that you provide showed that Magic did not dominate Hardaway and that is stretched over a longer period as well.


Bottom line, for all that Magic is known for, the numbers proved that Hardaway is a good match for Magic.


In the middle, however, the Duncan-Nowitzki lineup would dominate this series down low and that's where the battle is won. And the numbers proved that whenever Duncan played Mourning he was able to dominate him.

 

[Miggs]

No question Magic is a special player, but as I have shown, in their playoffs series, regardless of the W-L which depends on the teams, Hardaway was able to match Magic punch for punch, scoring more, having the same # of assists and getting a whopping 3 more steals. Even the regular seasons stats that you provide showed that Magic did not dominate Hardaway and that is stretched over a longer period as well.


Bottom line, for all that Magic is known for, the numbers proved that Hardaway is a good match for Magic.


In the middle, however, the Duncan-Nowitzki lineup would dominate this series down low and that's where the battle is won. And the numbers proved that whenever Duncan played Mourning he was able to dominate him.

Was Hardaway ever a key contributor on deep playoff runs?

 

[The Midnight]

Was Hardaway ever a key contributor on deep playoff runs?

Yeah in 1997 when he took the Heat to challenge the Bulls in the Eastern Conference Finals and like every teams including Utah lost to Michael.


(Hardaway scored 38 points vs the Knicks in game 7 in the semifinal)

 

[Miggs]

Yeah in 1997 when he took the Heat to challenge the Bulls in the Eastern Conference Finals and like every teams including Utah lost to Michael.


(Hardaway scored 38 points vs the Knicks in game 7 in the semifinal)

So just one time in his entire career?

 

[The Midnight]

So just one time in his entire career?

Yeah but again you've got to look at what casts he had to play with, coaching, etc. Teammates matter when you're considering how far you progress in the playoffs.


Look, I'm not saying Hardaway is better than Magic, I'm simply saying at that when they played Hardaway matched up very well against Magic.


This match to me is decided in the middle with Duncan & Dirk controlling the paint & versatility in scoring.

 

[Jeffrey32]

In the middle, however, the Duncan-Nowitzki lineup would dominate this series down low and that's where the battle is won. And the numbers proved that whenever Duncan played Mourning he was able to dominate him.

Duncan dominated a Mourning who was playing only 20 minutes a game as Shaq's back-up and post his kidney ailment. Mourning v. Duncan in their primes would have been an epic battle that I would have definitely liked to watch.