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Analytics has Enes Kanter is top ten in PER

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couscous

Well-Known Member
Analytics has Enes Kanter among top ten in PER

Enes Kanter is doing pretty well in OKC, and his defense went from bad to tolerable

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Hollinger Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Players
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
1 Stephen Curry, GS 13 35.6 .692 16.9 10.8 32.9 1.5 14.3 8.2 34.87 164.9 5.5
2 Russell Westbrook, OKC 12 35.0 .574 26.1 12.7 36.9 7.3 16.9 12.3 32.15 132.6 4.4
3 Blake Griffin, LAC 11 34.5 .601 15.4 6.4 29.1 7.2 20.2 13.8 30.52 107.6 3.6
4 Kevin Durant, OKC 8 34.8 .633 10.9 8.2 28.6 0.8 21.3 11.4 29.22 77.7 2.6
5 LeBron James, CLE 12 36.5 .576 18.4 10.3 33.0 4.0 16.7 10.6 27.87 113.5 3.8
6 Hassan Whiteside, MIA 11 28.8 .622 1.9 15.0 20.4 11.0 31.1 21.3 27.84 81.6 2.7
7 DeMarcus Cousins, SAC 8 32.3 .552 7.4 10.3 34.4 9.5 28.4 18.8 26.04 56.0 1.9
8 Derrick Favors, UTAH 11 30.3 .559 8.4 8.9 22.5 9.9 25.6 17.6 26.00 72.0 2.4
9 Kawhi Leonard, SA 10 33.4 .598 8.1 6.2 24.1 3.6 20.4 12.6 25.41 74.3 2.5
10 Enes Kanter, OKC 12 21.4 .616 6.4 10.8 22.8 17.3 25.9 21.8 25.05 55.4 1.8
 
JF wants to build a pretender off hope AND hype, not just some great white hope like Enes or Al Jefferson. So take your Kanter love, your negs, and GTFO.
 
PER has absolutely no bearing on defensive impact. What's your plan on showing how his defense went from "bad to tolerable."
 
U guys realize that he's trolling right?? Don't respond. This is the type of troll that types things he knows he doesn't believe. U are falling into his trap and getting attention these kind of trolls crave.
 
He only plays 20 minutes per night, usually off the bench. They do this to minimize the damage Kanter does defensively.

Not exactly worth the contract.
 
I would've loved Kanter if he was willing to play the same role in Utah as he is now in OKC.

Spark off the bench to terrorize opposing 2nd units.

EDIT: Looks like he's still a net negative though. Damn.
 
GVC said:
PER is junk.
Click to expand...

PER is actually pretty damn good based on the eye test if you exclude outliers. I think Al Jefferson ruined PER for many.


Anyway, I came to post that OKC is only 1/2 game ahead of the Jazz. Go Kwame Kanner!
 
The Kanter hate here is scary, I thought people in Utah had 10 wives, y'all seem all sorts of frustrated though. Dude's 23 let him live, goddamn this topic is so pathetic.. It's a pristine example of a mob mentality truly lacking perspective.. Y'all are scorned like some bitches.. I bet there's people here who will line-up to tell ya how much better Aaron Gordon will be than Enes..

Talk about Rose-colored glasses..

Easily one of the most extreme examples I've seen of homerism on this forum.. The hate is real, and palpable.

What If Dennis Lindsey waited for a better trade, and returned key assets -- Would y'all still feel the same about him?!
 
Kanter sucks. That's why he lost playing time in Jazz team and he's playing even less now in OKC.

What he gives you on offense (where he's great though), he takes it back and more by not defending. PER doesn't show the lack of defense, watch defensive rating or DBPM.
 
franklin said:
PER is actually pretty damn good based on the eye test if you exclude outliers.
Click to expand...
1. Which can be said about any arbitrary combination of box score stats (that puts sufficient weight on scoring).

2. Which is largely due to being conditioned to look at box score stats to evaluate players (i.e. there's a potential confirmation bias problem).

Just because PER is "regression-based" (or whatever...), doesn't mean it does a particularly good job at measuring the ordinal or cardinal value of players. The coefficients used in PER are estimated using team-level regressions, which don't translate nearly as well to individual players (e.g. are all baskets equal? Is the player who scores the basket the only player who contributes to the basket? Does individual defense matter?). Further, the linear regression model Hollinger uses may be (probably is) mis-specified (e.g. are assisted baskets worth more than unassisted baskets? Does it make sense that the break even field goal percentage for PER is so low?).

It's junk.
 
. Which can be said about any arbitrary combination of box score stats (that puts sufficient weight on scoring).

2. Which is largely due to being conditioned to look at box score stats to evaluate players (i.e. there's a potential confirmation bias problem).

Just because PER is "regression-based" (or whatever...), doesn't mean it does a particularly good job at measuring the ordinal or cardinal value of players. The coefficients used in PER are estimated using team-level regressions, which don't translate nearly as well to individual players (e.g. are all baskets equal? Is the player who scores the basket the only player who contributes to the basket? Does individual defense matter?). Further, the linear regression model Hollinger uses may be (probably is) mis-specified (e.g. are assisted baskets worth more than unassisted baskets? Does it make sense that the break even field goal percentage for PER is so low?).

It's junk.
Click to expand...

Mumbo dumbo bs talk .....look at the 9 other guys on the list including Derrik Favors,all putting up awesome #'s consistently,to **** on one you have to **** on all the others since their all drawn from the same analysis
 
Last edited by a moderator:
GVC said:
1. Which can be said about any arbitrary combination of box score stats (that puts sufficient weight on scoring).

2. Which is largely due to being conditioned to look at box score stats to evaluate players (i.e. there's a potential confirmation bias problem).

Just because PER is "regression-based" (or whatever...), doesn't mean it does a particularly good job at measuring the ordinal or cardinal value of players. The coefficients used in PER are estimated using team-level regressions, which don't translate nearly as well to individual players (e.g. are all baskets equal? Is the player who scores the basket the only player who contributes to the basket? Does individual defense matter?). Further, the linear regression model Hollinger uses may be (probably is) mis-specified (e.g. are assisted baskets worth more than unassisted baskets? Does it make sense that the break even field goal percentage for PER is so low?).

It's junk.
Click to expand...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

It's pretty ****in good.
 
PG_AB said:
The Kanter hate here is scary, I thought people in Utah had 10 wives, y'all seem all sorts of frustrated though. Dude's 23 let him live, goddamn this topic is so pathetic.. It's a pristine example of a mob mentality truly lacking perspective.. Y'all are scorned like some bitches.. I bet there's people here who will line-up to tell ya how much better Aaron Gordon will be than Enes..

Talk about Rose-colored glasses..

Easily one of the most extreme examples I've seen of homerism on this forum.. The hate is real, and palpable.

What If Dennis Lindsey waited for a better trade, and returned key assets -- Would y'all still feel the same about him?!
Click to expand...

10 wives? Wow, what an original insult. Never heard that one before. I hope you spent hours coming up with something so clever, because that really stings and stuff. Brilliant.

Kanter is hated because he demanded a trade, lowered his value, and the badmouthed the oragnization after he left. If you can find someone who did something similar who isn't hated by a fan base because of that, let me know. What's more telling is that on his first game back none of the starters gave him the customary fist bump, and many spoke out against him after the game and during it. It's one thing for us fans with 10 wives (BTW, you've never been married since you actually believe that having 10 wives would actually mellow someone out) to hate him, it's more telling when his former teammates hate him too.
 
GVC said:
Way to miss the point. How does the list look if you do points+rebounds+assists?
Click to expand...

Fine. You're far beyond better than me at any of the advanced analytic stuff. However:

GVC said:
1. Which can be said about any arbitrary combination of box score stats (that puts sufficient weight on scoring).

2. Which is largely due to being conditioned to look at box score stats to evaluate players (i.e. there's a potential confirmation bias problem).

Just because PER is "regression-based" (or whatever...), doesn't mean it does a particularly good job at measuring the ordinal or cardinal value of players. The coefficients used in PER are estimated using team-level regressions, which don't translate nearly as well to individual players (e.g. are all baskets equal? Is the player who scores the basket the only player who contributes to the basket? Does individual defense matter?). Further, the linear regression model Hollinger uses may be (probably is) mis-specified (e.g. are assisted baskets worth more than unassisted baskets? Does it make sense that the break even field goal percentage for PER is so low?).

It's junk.
Click to expand...

If it's junk then why does it consistently measure the best players in the NBA AND all time greats? The NBA is an eyeball test league. That drives the numbers guys nuts. We can measure them any way we like but at the end of the day the eyeball test is really all that matters in making a coaching difference. You can give Al Jefferson a top 5 per and he has to shop his *** around for a good contract. You can give genuine top 10, first vote All Stars a top 5 per and any team will max them.

Call it junk all you like but it's still the most trustworthy metric there is in measuring NBA value. It's an eyeball test league.
 
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