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Are people poor because they are lazy?

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franklin

Well-Known Member
https://conversableeconomist.blogspot.com/2012/05/inequality-of-leisure.html

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Just to be clear, Attanasio, Hurst, and Pistaferri are in no way making some foolish argument the rise in income and consumption inequality that benefits those at the top of the income scale shouldn't matter, because it is offset by greater inequality of leisure benefiting those who tend to be at the bottom of the income scale.

But although the U.S. economy has become much less equal with regard to income and consumption, it is worth remembering that these are not the only measures of well-being. For example, I posted on June 29, 2011, about how "Inequality of Mortality" has been greatly reduced. And as leisure has become less equally distributed in a way that tends to favor those with lower skill levels, those with a rising share of leisure are better off in that dimension of well-being, albeit in a way that isn't captured in income or consumption statistics.
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I think the current labor policy of allowing billionaires to work educated workers for 70 hour per week on a 40/week salary but required to pay uneducated workers overtime has something to do with the leisure levels.
 
Laziness doesn't have much to do with it There are guys working 10 hours a day picking fruit that I make a lot more money then, yet I'm far lazier than them.

I'm guessing lower educated people have more down time because the one nice thing about a 9 to 5 is the hours tend to be set, while salaried professionals get roped into working long days for pointless projects and the like. Which after reading again is pretty much what Franklin said.
 
I agree with your assessment. Working more hours when overtime nets you 1.5x pay is an attractive option. Working more hours when you not only don't get more than your normal pay but get absolutely nothing at all as far as pay is something to avoid. Now, I know that promotions are very often determined by who's willing to put in the extra hours and who takes on the bigger more challenging workload and or does more projects, so in that way those overtime hours might eventually lead to more pay. But if you can get your work done between 9-5 and you're not paid by the hour then spending extra time at work is for people who hate their families.

I don't think poor people are poor because they are stupid and lazy. I think there are way too many factors involved to make such a statement. To me it is sort of like a standardized test score. I don't think the score represents the height of your intelligence, knowledge or aptitude, I think it represents the absolute bottom of your intelligence, knowledge or aptitude. Meaning that a test score tells you that someone is at least at x-level based on their score. Getting a low score could mean that you're an idiot, or it could mean they just happened to ask all the questions you didn't know the answer to when given a different set of questions you would have gotten a high score. Or you may not have taken the test seriously, or didn't get enough sleep, or marked your answers on the wrong line of the bubble sheet, or whatever other reason that resulted in you not doing your best. Life is a lot like that. Luck, random chance, etc. play a role. I think you can say that the most successful people are hard working and intelligent because they have to be to succeed at such a high level. I don't think that proves the reverse argument that people who haven't been successful are lazy and stupid.
 
I do not get time and a half when I work OT. I wish I did. I get like 1.22 instead of 1.5.
 
This entire country is poor because of the Federal Reserve system.
How much more money would everyone have if a gallon of gas cost a dime?
How much more money would people have if a good house still cost 5,000 bucks, and a good car cost 1,500 like it was before the reserve act was passed?
The dollar is worthless, and that's why people are poor weather they have 12 jobs or are playing guitar for money on the street.
 
If you are poor you have to work 100x as hard as someone who has more opportunities to get to the same place. Few people, rich or poor, have that kind of work ethic and mental fortitude.
 
I think most of the people, at least around here, are 'poor' because they're hooked on drugs. Drugs, they aren't cheap.
 
I was more interested in the blog showing how living standards are still improving in spite of the allegedly growing wealth divide.

As far as being poor goes, I always say it's easier to work hard, meaning it's easier to stay in your comfort zone by taking an initially higher paying labor job early on in life and party your young years away than it is to stress your brain and learn something you're not into but will give you more opportunity. It's also a lot harder to build a successful business from nothing or learn the laws necessary to develop land.

I also don't think you're poor if you choose the lower wage route because you enjoy that type of work. That sounds like happiness to me.
 
I pretty much always enjoyed what I did. Made me work harder without it feeling like a total drag. Everyone is different, obviously, but I have two keys to success from my own experience.

1. You MUST believe you are the total ****. No room for error. If you flinch, you lose. You will win and nothing or no one will stop you, 100% belief.
2. Along the same lines, you cannot play it too safe and have too many plan b's or safety nets. Those that obtain great wealth are typically very sure of themselves and ultimate risk takers. Go big or go home.
 
PKM said:
I pretty much always enjoyed what I did. Made me work harder without it feeling like a total drag. Everyone is different, obviously, but I have two keys to success from my own experience.

1. You MUST believe you are the total ****. No room for error. If you flinch, you lose. You will win and nothing or no one will stop you, 100% belief.
2. Along the same lines, you cannot play it too safe and have too many plan b's or safety nets. Those that obtain great wealth are typically very sure of themselves and ultimate risk takers. Go big or go home.
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*A man cannot be comfortable without his own approval.

*All you need is ignorance and confidence and the success is sure.

*All right, then, I'll go to hell.

All by Mark Twain.
 
PKM said:
I pretty much always enjoyed what I did. Made me work harder without it feeling like a total drag. Everyone is different, obviously, but I have two keys to success from my own experience.

1. You MUST believe you are the total ****. No room for error. If you flinch, you lose. You will win and nothing or no one will stop you, 100% belief.
2. Along the same lines, you cannot play it too safe and have too many plan b's or safety nets. Those that obtain great wealth are typically very sure of themselves and ultimate risk takers. Go big or go home.
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But what's your background PKM? It's easy to say those things when you're independently wealthy before you start in on a project. Most of us come from middle class families, which means failing is the difference between feeding your family and not.

I'm not trying to bash you and I apologize for the bluntness, but I hear all these motivational speakers say similar things and I get skeptical because it seems like they're not being very practical from the perspective of most hardworking middle class people.
 
If you have opportunity and are poor than you are lazy (me). Immigrants picking fruit don't have much opportunity, so regardless of how hard they work they are stuck to a certain pay scale. I have been lazy for the last 6 years and it has really screwed my life up. In order to make up for my laziness I am working a really crappy job in order to make good money. So I blame myself and only myself for my current situation.
 
kennykyle said:
If you have opportunity and are poor than you are lazy (me). Immigrants picking fruit don't have much opportunity, so regardless of how hard they work they are stuck to a certain pay scale. I have been lazy for the last 6 years and it has really screwed my life up. In order to make up for my laziness I am working a really crappy job in order to make good money. So I blame myself and only myself for my current situation.
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Mad respeck.
 
There will always be exceptions, but I say yes. What in noticed in my short life is that the successful people who own a successful business work harder than everybody else. Do example, my families farm is better than others because we work 15 hour days on a regular basis and are willing to put in the extra effort that others aren't. We also employ a lot of people. Those that work hard and show potential are rewarded with a raise. Those that don't work hard won't get a raise. That doesn't mean we'll fire you, but you sure as hell ain't getting a raise. People need to realize that getting a raise or a job isn't a right, it's a privilege. Put in the work and usually you'll get rewarded.
 
larryselbows said:
But what's your background PKM? It's easy to say those things when you're independently wealthy before you start in on a project. Most of us come from middle class families, which means failing is the difference between feeding your family and not.

I'm not trying to bash you and I apologize for the bluntness, but I hear all these motivational speakers say similar things and I get skeptical because it seems like they're not being very practical from the perspective of most hardworking middle class people.
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I was given nothing, ever. Nor did I have any artificial network of help. I learned very early that I was a very, very good salesman. Rather than use that to sell things, I turned it into selling business deals. At 22 years old, I talked a guy into putting up the land (in St. Augustine Beach, FL) for a RE dev't I wanted to do. I talked an engineer into taking a small % of the upside to do the project engineering work. I talked a contractor into taking a small piece to put in some roads, etc, etc. I then sold out my first real estate development.

For the next 15 years, I bought and sold real estate developments .. typically risking everything, everytime. I had the confidence that I could sell my way out of any problem I got myself into.

There's an old story known as 'Nail Soup.' That story epitomizes how I got my start.

(No offense taken, btw)
 
Me either PKM. Everything I have I worked for. I was taught how to work and to think for myself. Never had a car bought for me. Or a cell phone or anything else. I earned it all on my own. My parents gave me the "tools" and then got out of my way.
 
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