Are people poor because they are lazy?

[freakazoid]

Interesting topic, and a lot of good posts. My version of an answer to this thread is this: Nobody wants to be poor. Nobody wants to be a loser. Everyone wants to be successful. People are poor because they have personality traits that they cannot overcome. Whether it's addiction to drugs, alcohol, sleep, food, fishing -- cough -- it's hard to actually change who you are. Sure, there are tons of rags-to-riches stories out there, but I believe those people just had the right combination of personality traits, drive, and intelligence. If you take one of those three things away, it's virtually impossible for someone to get out of their "rut".

Maybe this is stupid, but over the years this is how it seems to me. I have a brother who is absurdly wealthy for being under 40. He paid his half-million dollar home off in three years, has enough money saved to retire at 40 and live an exquisite life just on the interest of his savings, and is one of the hardest workers I've ever met. The catch? He's a miserable piece of ****. His personality is to work his mind and body to the bone, save every penny he makes, and be the stingiest ******* in the state. He suffers. His wife suffers. His kids suffer. They never see their dad, they never get new clothes (D.I. is their HQ, and then it's handed down for three generations of kids -- I'm not joking here), and he hates his life. But he can't help it, because that's just the way he's wired. He is constantly saying that he wishes he could be more like me; lazy. I have been in sales most of my life because I like to be a lazy *** when I want, fish when I want, and work when I want. It has worked out so far, but the older I get, the more I see how my personality is going to ultimately doom me and my family. Can I change it? Of course I can. The only problem is that I've seen the writing on the wall for almost two years now, but I still have done nothing about it. It's there, it's plain as day, and if my brother were in my shoes, things would've changed 1 year and 364 days ago -- but we're just different people, and no matter how much I would like to be like him in some ways, and he be like me in some ways, it's just never going to happen. So, again, to summarize, I think most people are poor because that's just the way they're wired. Simple/idiotic way of putting it, but that's it.

Great stuff. Lots of truth to this.

I also think people have to find a balance between living for the now, and living for the future. There are a lot of people who make enough money to put themselves in a better position at some point, but they lack the discipline to sacrifice long enough to invest in themselves. The other side of that, and it sounds like your brother fits to a tee, is people who can never enjoy the fruits of what they've earned, because they're always having buyer's remorse and obsessing over how they could've invested it.

I've got a Corvette and a custom motorcycle, and for some reason, I haven't figured out yet how to drive them both at the same time. Don't get me wrong, as I absolutely love both of them, and I'm not addicted to collecting toys, but it would have been a lot more practical had I decided to sacrifice at least one of them in the name of seeking a higher quality of life in what I do for a living. Obviously, I could still do so, and I plan on it, but starting over in life really sucks, especially when you're not as young as you used to be, and I'm dragging my feet as well. I'm not going to get into what I do, but I will say that I do it because of how much money I make, and not because I like it.

I have no misconceptions about ever being wired the way your brother is, but I do believe that personal choices have a big impact on how much progress someone makes in changing their life, and it starts with one choice at a time. I don't think you can let yourself believe that you're not capable of making the necessary changes in your life, based of the way you're wired. I completely agree that you're never going to be like your brother, no matter what you do. But that's probably a blessing anyway, from what you've said, and so any changes you make will be closer to having the best of both worlds. Make a 5 year plan and be completely honest with yourself about what actions are necessary to achieve that goal. More importantly, try to be realistic in setting your goals. Decide on what sacrifices you're actually capable of making, and where compromises will likely have to be made in order to keep your sanity.

I also think you've got a couple of advantages working in your favor, which shouldn't be overlooked. Sometimes it's hard to motivate yourself to sacrifice for your own future, so don't let yourself forget for even a minute who else is counting on you, and how much their future means to you. If you really are a natural salesman, that's 95% of success in life, and it's not selling stuff, so much as selling yourself. We all know you're selling an inferior product, but a true saleman never lets the truth get in the way of progress(sorry, had to get my daily zinger in).

Keep in mind, I'm much better at advising others on how to live their lives, than I am at actually living my own. I can definately relate to how you feel about your situation, and much of this post was just me trying to talk myself into making changes in my own situation. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go buy a lottery ticket.

 

[Surely]

I think that people are a lot like Jim Carey in the Truman Show. The part where the director talks about Truman accepting his reality and how they couldn't keep him in the dark if he really wanted to get out applies to life. Most people accept their "reality" without trying to break out into something special. My personal example, 6 years ago I had an idea come to me. I went and met with Workman Nydegger (big IP firm in SLC) about patenting my idea. The two lawyers I met with listened intently, told me what a great idea it was, then asked me what company I was with. When I told them I was a one man show, they almost laughed me out of the building saying that what I had come up with would be a huge undertaking for a company with lots of resources. Here I am a few years down the road and I just got my working prototype finished. The patent pending number should be here some time in June. After that, I need to find some investors to get this to the production ready phase. Honestly, I don't know for sure where I will find those people, but I do know that I will. After all my experience going through this process I have felt discouraged and ready to quit more than once. But there is a line from Og Mandino's "The Greatest Salesman In The World" that keeps me going. One of the characters says, "Failure will never overtake me if my determination to succeed is strong enough". It is that determination to succeed that separates the winners from the losers (and I'm not just talking about money here). Another line from Mandino's book says, "What two, among a thousand wise men, will define success in the same words: yet failure is always described but one way. Failure is man's inability to reach his goals in life, whatever they may be."

 

[Dr. Jones]

There are some of the greatest posts in this thread, ever.

 

[Hantlers]

I didn't know gays like to fish. That's perplexing to me. Trout: My group has THE fishing spots in the world tied up .. challenge me, seriously. We own 450,000 acres in patagonia .. 15 miles of the snake river.

I fished everyday of my life growing up .. bass, crappie, blue gill, blah, blah .. but I have ALWAYS wanted to fly fish, but never have. We have the spots, (private), but I still haven't done it. I am pissed at myself, because I know I would love fly fishing but haven't tried it.

J


Come over to Montana and I'll take you fly fishing. I'll even buy the beer.

 

[Hantlers]

Surely, I'm intrigued by what your prototype is. Details?

 

[Dr. Jones]

Surely, I'm intrigued by what your prototype is. Details?

What is this referring to?

 

[franklin]

I just grow concerned about the middle class. In my experience, I've interacted with a lot of different people from lower-middle class to upper class families and here are my observations.

I have my own concerns with middle class but they have nothing to do with our view of the world. I grew up as poor as anyone here and worked into the middle class. My children may not see things threw the same lense as your rich students but they will have a vision close enough. Besides, I don't think it's healthy to push and pressure kids to settle for nothing but the greatest standard as set by parents. It's the same old same old I'm a doctor, your grandfather was a doctor, and you will be a doctor too even though you want to be an artist movie. Moving down a class or two is just as healthy as moving up the scale. Class mobility isn't so if it's only a one way street.

He is constantly saying that he wishes he could be more like me; lazy. I have been in sales most of my life because I like to be a lazy *** when I want, fish when I want, and work when I want. It has worked out so far, but the older I get, the more I see how my personality is going to ultimately doom me and my family. Can I change it? Of course I can. The only problem is that I've seen the writing on the wall for almost two years now, but I still have done nothing about it. It's there, it's plain as day, and if my brother were in my shoes, things would've changed 1 year and 364 days ago -- but we're just different people, and no matter how much I would like to be like him in some ways, and he be like me in some ways, it's just never going to happen. So, again, to summarize, I think most people are poor because that's just the way they're wired. Simple/idiotic way of putting it, but that's it.

First off, you underestimate yourself. You could easily earn $250,000-$300,000 per year in a situation that gives you enough latitude to satisfy your lifestyle. Keep at it a few years and save enough to go back to what you enjoy.

There are two sides to that coin. I work a job I can't stand at times and I drink because of it. I get up too early, I get off way too late, and I drive far too long every work day. I will retire comfortably financially if I keep at it but retiring physically and mentally comfortable is in question.

I think we need a balance between living for today and living for tomorrow. If we jump onto your brother's train then we don't enjoy every day of life like it is our last. If we board the opposite line then we don't sleep comfortably knowing we have hedged against future calamity. That's the way I see it anyway.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Another great post, Franklin.

I was very fortunate to only have about 2 years of my life that I was so consumed with success that I seriously don't remember two years of my kid's lives. I woke up one day, realized it, sold my company a month later and took two years completely off. Didn't make up for those two years, but was a blast and a great shot at doing so. Since then I've found balance. My wife and kids don't even think I work, but I get it done. I know I could be making a ton more money than I am, but I hung up that desire a long time ago. Looking back, I'm not overly regretful of those two years .. because that, too, taught me a lot.

 

[TroutBum]

Ugh, after reading what I wrote and the responses I got, I need to clarify: I am quite happy with where I am. I've lived with myself for 31 years, and I'm getting to know the real Trout better and better every day. I lose no sleep at night, because I know when the **** goes down, I'll be up to the task. Right now, I am sacrificing my career (I sell insurance, have been for a couple of years) right now so I can make $40.00 an hour doing manual labor. It's killing my body and mind, but it's hard to pass up that kind of cash. I know that in the long run, I should be selling, not *** raping my own body -- but I can't help myself. This is the FIFTEENTH summer that I have done this labor job, and this year it is finally showing itself on my body. I'm getting sun-spots on my skin like my old man, my back is hurting, my balls ache. It's rough.

But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln...

To pat myself on the back, kind of, I've finally reached the point that my retirement accounts were at 5 years ago before I emptied them in order to keep my business afloat. Yay me. On top of that, in August we will be 100% debt free for the first time in our marriage. Boo ya.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Congrats, Trout. Sounds like life could be a whole lot worse .. and ai'm truly happy for that.

 

[GoJazz]

Also important is risk tolerance. I think that wealthy people take calculated risks at a higher rate and get a higher return on there money.

 

[franklin]

Sounds like you are living the dream, Trout, aside from the brother of course. I doubt anyone would believe you're lazy anyway, even before your manual labor story.

 

[Surely]

Surely, I'm intrigued by what your prototype is. Details?

My patent attorney has advised me not to disclose anything at this point. But if you want, I will create a thread about it in a month or so with all the details. Heck, I may even ask for people on here to give me their advice and input. Trust me, if you are into golf, you will like this.

 

[franklin]

Heck, I may even ask for people on here to give me their advice and input.

That's code for our money, right?

 

[Surely]

That's code for our money, right?

I would never ask people on here for money. I was thinking more of expertise in various business aspects. However, if someone wanted to invest after hearing the idea, then I suppose we could talk. I have a few potential investors lined up, and I've had people tell me to go on ABC's Shark Tank show.

 

[Stoked]

Another great post, Franklin.

I was very fortunate to only have about 2 years of my life that I was so consumed with success that I seriously don't remember two years of my kid's lives. I woke up one day, realized it, sold my company a month later and took two years completely off. Didn't make up for those two years, but was a blast and a great shot at doing so. Since then I've found balance. My wife and kids don't even think I work, but I get it done. I know I could be making a ton more money than I am, but I hung up that desire a long time ago. Looking back, I'm not overly regretful of those two years .. because that, too, taught me a lot.

I could be making double what I am now but it would take me away from my daughters. Even increasing what I make 10 times is not worth it to me. Nothing would be worth missing out on them.

 

[Hantlers]

My patent attorney has advised me not to disclose anything at this point. But if you want, I will create a thread about it in a month or so with all the details. Heck, I may even ask for people on here to give me their advice and input. Trust me, if you are into golf, you will like this.

I was actually thinking of being a potential investor. No biggie though.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

I would never ask people on here for money. I was thinking more of expertise in various business aspects. However, if someone wanted to invest after hearing the idea, then I suppose we could talk. I have a few potential investors lined up, and I've had people tell me to go on ABC's Shark Tank show.

Go on bro!!!! I watch that show every week!!! Love it!!! From my experience of watching, be sure you have your patent(s) and more importantly, sales with a fair valuation ready. Hypothetically, if you've done 50K in sales in the first six months, they don't want to see you asking for 100K for 15% of the company when they've valued it at 100K if you get my drift. Projections are nice. But not when it's their money that's being invested. However, I will say there are times when a product/invention is just that much of an obvious home run that they give a solid offer with little to no sales...though those seem to be the ones that they get to go on the HSN.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Go on bro!!!! I watch that show every week!!! Love it!!! From my experience of watching, be sure you have your patent(s) and more importantly, sales with a fair valuation ready. Hypothetically, if you've done 50K in sales in the first six months, they don't want to see you asking for 100K for 15% of the company when they've valued it at 100K if you get my drift. Projections are nice. But not when it's their money that's being invested. However, I will say there are times when a product/invention is just that much of an obvious home run that they give a solid offer with little to no sales...though those seem to be the ones that they get to go on the HSN.

Not to disagree, but if the product and patent is compelling enough, the sales track record is unimportant. In fact, a poor sales record could be far more problematic than so sales record. If investors asked me what my sales were and I said, $0 .. then they asked what my plan was for distribution, I'd say "that's why I'm here, if I were both a product development specialist and a marketing guru, I'd take this thing on my own .. I'm looking for expertise, in a partner, as much as capital."

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Not to disagree, but if the product and patent is compelling enough, the sales track record is unimportant. In fact, a poor sales record could be far more problematic than so sales record. If investors asked me what my sales were and I said, $0 .. then they asked what my plan was for distribution, I'd say "that's why I'm here, if I were both a product development specialist and a marketing guru, I'd take this thing on my own .. I'm looking for expertise, in a partner, as much as capital."

Yes, but based on my viewing experience, they'd laugh you out of the room more often than not because they don't want to live, eat, and breath the product. They're already billionaires and don't need to bust their *** working for it. They need the person coming on the show to do that so that their money (that invested by said billionaires) works for them. So while they will lend their expertise, they also don't want to kill themselves just to make a few more million. That said, there have been episodes where a killer patent/product with no sales to date gets the Sharks drooling. But those products are few and far between. And like I said, they're often HSN type ones.