Are people poor because they are lazy?
- Thread starter franklin
- Start date
Sorry .. I meant, 'whichever.'
Cocaine
Active Member
I currently work 3 jobs. 1 full, 9:00PM - 7:30AM, Monday-Thursday(4 10's), 3:00PM - 8:00PM Monday-Friday and 20 hours on the weekend. I struggle day-to-day to provide for my wife who is unable to work due to an injury. We rarely are able to go grocery shopping each month. Maybe 30-40 dollars here and there if we're lucky. Pretty much out of my control right now.
That's rough Cocaine. 90 hours/week should be enough on minimum wage even.
What you need to do is adopt a couple kids and get all the tax benefits, food stamps, etc.
larryselbows
Banned
You seem like a hardworking family man, Cocaine.
candrew
Well-Known Member
I haven't been following this tread very closely; but I thought this link would be pertinent to the conversation.
https://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2012/05/poverty_rates_most_u_s_counties_see_increasing_poverty_rates.html
U.S. map of poverty rate increases county by country from 2007-2010. Looks like a lot of people just happened to get lazy over the last few years.
If you read the text above the map, it defines poverty as a family of 4 living on less than 22K a year. I can tell you a single person let alone four would have a tough time making it on less than 22K in NJ
https://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2012/05/poverty_rates_most_u_s_counties_see_increasing_poverty_rates.html
U.S. map of poverty rate increases county by country from 2007-2010. Looks like a lot of people just happened to get lazy over the last few years.
If you read the text above the map, it defines poverty as a family of 4 living on less than 22K a year. I can tell you a single person let alone four would have a tough time making it on less than 22K in NJ
To be honest I think it is a mix. Sure the economy sucks and some hard working people lost jobs, homes and all that. That is beyond arguement. I also think there are those that gave up. "Oh it is tuff! I cannot make it anymore." /apply for dissability, /apply for food stamps, apply for medicaid...
Scorpjazz
Well-Known Member
Short answer, yes.
More in depth, work smarter NOT harder..
Putting in 80 hours for 10 bucks an hour for 40 years or putting in 40 hours a week for 1 to 4 years WHILE going to some training (college or whatever) to gain skills to make more money?
I do realise people like to play the victim and blame society and how hard it is to get out of bad situations. Keep complaining about it while others in your exact same situation pull themselves up and prove you wrong.
Again, yes.
More in depth, work smarter NOT harder..
Putting in 80 hours for 10 bucks an hour for 40 years or putting in 40 hours a week for 1 to 4 years WHILE going to some training (college or whatever) to gain skills to make more money?
I do realise people like to play the victim and blame society and how hard it is to get out of bad situations. Keep complaining about it while others in your exact same situation pull themselves up and prove you wrong.
Again, yes.
orangello
Well-Known Member
I am really late to this party. I have thoroughly enjoyed/appreciated what has been added to this thread. I will add my few experiences to this list.
I am the latter of the two currently. I work a min of 40 hours a week and I go to school at the same time. My commute to work is about 45 minutes each way and that really adds to the feeling that I am way too busy right now.
Here is a little about me. I am the oldest child of nine. There are seven boys and two girls, one of which is mentally handicapped. From the time I was about 8 I have been a surrogate parent of sorts. I think that most big LDS families work that way. Once the older kids are capable of handling the younger kids and teaching them how to clean and take care of themselves they are matched up with a younger child. I love that I had that chance because I am close to every single one of my siblings even though the youngest is 18 years younger than I am.
Once I was old enough to get on a bus from WVC to Salt Lake I have worked. My first real job was working for a sorority house at the UofU and I was in charge of setting up, serving and cleaning up a meal once a week for 150 college girls. It was intense at first. I remember walking into the laundry room in the basement and when I turned on the light I was surrounded by bras and panties everywhere. I was too young to know what was going on but I felt very out of place.
Eventually I served a mission for the LDS church. I didn't leave until I was almost 22 because I wanted to be certain that I was doing this for the right reasons and not because I was pressured into it by others. Unfortunately, I was used as an excuse as to why other friends and family members did not serve. Basically it was, "If he didn't go on a mission then I shouldn't have to either."
When I got home I started working as a massage therapist because prior to my mission I graduated and got my license to become a massage therapist. That lasted for a while until I met my wife and her family trashed me daily saying that being a massage therapist is not a real profession for a guy. Eventually though a good opportunity came up and I took it and I started making more money then I could have with massage work.
My official title at the new job was assistant to the CEO. It wasn't a big company but it was something that was teaching me new things. My real job was to motivate the CEO to get out and work daily and get things done. After a couple of months of basically fighting to get him out the door I mentioned that I felt that I could help the company if I were to get out and start doing things on my own. They did let me do that be everything that I did was taken the wrong way and for another 3 long years I had to justify myself daily about what I was doing despite the fact that I was one of the most profitable people in the company.
While going through that experience I decided that I needed to get another degree. Honestly, my massage ability was taken advantage of many time at different jobs because I have a willing and helpful demeanor. I am getting my degree because about 95% of the people that I have worked with that are over me don't have the skills that I di but they have the degree that says that they know what they are talking about. It has taught me a lot being in that situation but more than anything it has taught me the true value of an education. So I have been going to school while working and raising a family.
I have two kids. A boy that is 3 who I have so much fun with and he has been tested many times for autism and that is yet to be determined. I also have a little girl who just turned 1 a couple of weeks ago that started walking for the first time around her birthday.
I share all of this because despite the fact that I am only 28 I feel like I have a good idea on what it takes to be successful. I am no millionaire and I probably make less than most people here but I have no doubt that I will make a name for myself one day. I won't make that money at the expense of my family though. I have appreciated hearing form Stoked and PKM as well as others that have talked about having time and a strong relationship with their children. I will be the same way. I am sure that I will miss out on some opportunities but I will not miss out on the most important ones.
My personal belief is that success comes with a firm belief that you will be successful despite where you might be in life, but also the ability to know when to jump on an opportunity when it presents its self. The one common belief that we all share is that you have to work hard. I know people that work hard but they don't believe in themselves or they don't jump on an opportunity. I also know people that believe that they are the bees knees but wouldn't be caught dead working hard.
Thanks for this thread and I will stop my sharing my personal life with you guys. No, I don't want any PM's form anyone wanting picutes of my kids. Yes, that means you Wes.
Repped accordingly.
orangello
Well-Known Member
Are you repping me because I stopped?
Your Wes reference.
This.
Wow. I've never been to the "general" topics before. This is real dialog. It is good. I lot of very good posts. I am one who thinks the class strata is very much a mirror of skill sets (the natural aspect) but also there is no doubt the influence of parenting. Rich parents begat rich kids. Poor parents begat poor kids. There is nothing more powerful than the example a parent presents to their children. In the US anyway, it is possible to "make it" from any situation; it is just harder to come from some places rather than others.
I was intrigued by LarrysElbows insights about the "rich kids have excellent scores on tests and grades, but they are not any smarter." This is so telling. I joke that the reason that general test scores at the schools along the wasatch front that are high on the benches are better than those in the valley is due to the reduced oxygen on the benches. Certainly its that or the correlation to money, which is correlated to education levels.
I had the experience of growing up poverty-poor. But luckily for me, i was around so many others that were poor we didn't really know it. Or should i say we didn't feel the pain of it. But unlucky for most of us we didn't have any motivation/understanding about the concept of college or the abundance of proffessions or the adventure one could have outside of our little town with its single industry. As kids, we lived a good life on the river, building rafts, fishing, riding bikes and playing basketball on a concrete slab with a permanently net-less hoop. I loved it actually. I grew up, went to college (one of the very few of us) and work in the rat race of those who spend 50+hrs a week with no overtime... My kids are growing up in suburban Salt Lake, and i wonder if their life is better or worse than mine. But i'm certain in today's environment and going further into the future, it is seems survival is highly correlated to urban living and we are destined for the rat race. So while i'd like my kids to be living in the sticks playing on the river - i just couldn't do that as an adult. (and my wife would NO WAY accept small town life again.)
This was a very interesting thread and to ponder the concept of being 'poor.' Thanks all for the posts.
I was intrigued by LarrysElbows insights about the "rich kids have excellent scores on tests and grades, but they are not any smarter." This is so telling. I joke that the reason that general test scores at the schools along the wasatch front that are high on the benches are better than those in the valley is due to the reduced oxygen on the benches. Certainly its that or the correlation to money, which is correlated to education levels.
I had the experience of growing up poverty-poor. But luckily for me, i was around so many others that were poor we didn't really know it. Or should i say we didn't feel the pain of it. But unlucky for most of us we didn't have any motivation/understanding about the concept of college or the abundance of proffessions or the adventure one could have outside of our little town with its single industry. As kids, we lived a good life on the river, building rafts, fishing, riding bikes and playing basketball on a concrete slab with a permanently net-less hoop. I loved it actually. I grew up, went to college (one of the very few of us) and work in the rat race of those who spend 50+hrs a week with no overtime... My kids are growing up in suburban Salt Lake, and i wonder if their life is better or worse than mine. But i'm certain in today's environment and going further into the future, it is seems survival is highly correlated to urban living and we are destined for the rat race. So while i'd like my kids to be living in the sticks playing on the river - i just couldn't do that as an adult. (and my wife would NO WAY accept small town life again.)
This was a very interesting thread and to ponder the concept of being 'poor.' Thanks all for the posts.
I was going to read this whole thread, but that seemed like a lot of work.
... on a side note, I sure wish I had more money.
Could any of you rich posters lend me some cash?
I will pay you back I promise, my last bankruptcy was only 3 years ago so chances are good you will get some of it. I cant apply again for 4 more years.
... on a side note, I sure wish I had more money.
Could any of you rich posters lend me some cash?
I will pay you back I promise, my last bankruptcy was only 3 years ago so chances are good you will get some of it. I cant apply again for 4 more years.
what you usin tah keep your energy up?????
So here's some cheap grub that really works: oatmeal, boiled with milk and cinnamon in the morning, and some eggs. Buy sunflower kernels raw at 2.37/pound and peanuts from those bulk bins at Smith's Marketplace, downtown is where I go. A head of cabbage to knaw on like a rat or a bag of carrots. Buy the butcher's bone cuts and boil with carrots and cabbage if the taste is too strong.
Probably lots of other cheap good food if you're willing to consider it.
Oh, most people work hard and never get ahead. For many there is actually little hope, unless they are willing to just reject the "mainstream" style. You won't make it on wages, not anywhere. You have to just cinch up and get a little capital working too, living beneath your means whatever it takes.
Oh, and never vote "Incumbent" or anyone whose a player for the system. Make your vote noticed. Vote for me.