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Are the Jazz Not Bad?

MT Steve said:
My thing with him is, if you're gonna play the role of acting like you're smarter than everybody else and putting everybody else down for it, the least you could do is get basic facts right so that people aren't constantly having to correct you.

Weird dude.
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The only solid evidence we have for how weird he is: he's been entertained by trolling this website for over a decade. Nothing he says can be taken at face value. It's all troll-value.
 
Look we aren't incompetent and we aren't talentless. We will win 25 games +-2 games. The stars will be managed. The youth will be played. There will be many experiments. Soreness, tightness, and contusions will be managed aggressively.

If you needed a sign... the classic @Saint Cy of JFC declaration in preseason that will surely be wrong has just been presented to all of us. I wish it was more bold and had more bravado... cuz then I would think for sure we were bottom 4.

But for real. I think we understand the assignment. The schedule should be rough to start the season. The West is competitive as it has ever been. When Hardy/Ainge decided we were tanking last year they executed brilliantly. We got this.
 
The Jazz don't play games in a vacuum. It's not just about how bad or good we are, but how good or bad other teams are. There are at least 6-7 teams in the East simply worse than the Jazz, and most of them actively tanking. The West may be tougher, but there are still bad teams like the Blazers and the Spurs, and others who are probably not better than the Jazz like the Rockets or even the Grizzlies.

Then there are so many aging teams with bloated overall salaries and no improvement from last year that the bottom just has to fall out for some of them. The Suns won 49 games, the Lakers won 47, the Clippers won 51. All 3 got older and all 3 arguably got worse. The Clippers would be my bet to finish with under 35 wins, but any of these could do it.

Barring a situation where both Lauri and Collin tear their ACLs, it's really hard to see the Jazz be worse than all the bad teams in the East or even some of these over-the-hill teams in the West. The Jazz can take the loss of their 4th or 5th best player and just plug in another young prospect. The Suns would be starting G-Leaguers at that point.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Look we aren't incompetent and we aren't talentless. We will win 25 games +-2 games. The stars will be managed. The youth will be played. There will be many experiments. Soreness, tightness, and contusions will be managed aggressively.

If you needed a sign... the classic @Saint Cy of JFC declaration in preseason that will surely be wrong has just been presented to all of us. I wish it was more bold and had more bravado... cuz then I would think for sure we were bottom 4.

But for real. I think we understand the assignment. The schedule should be rough to start the season. The West is competitive as it has ever been. When Hardy/Ainge decided we were tanking last year they executed brilliantly. We got this.
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This is where I’ve been at all summer. Welcome.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Look we aren't incompetent and we aren't talentless. We will win 25 games +-2 games. The stars will be managed. The youth will be played. There will be many experiments. Soreness, tightness, and contusions will be managed aggressively.

If you needed a sign... the classic @Saint Cy of JFC declaration in preseason that will surely be wrong has just been presented to all of us. I wish it was more bold and had more bravado... cuz then I would think for sure we were bottom 4.

But for real. I think we understand the assignment. The schedule should be rough to start the season. The West is competitive as it has ever been. When Hardy/Ainge decided we were tanking last year they executed brilliantly. We got this.
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I agree they understand, but every win/loss matters if you want the top 5 odds. I just dont think this team has that level of suck in them for 82 games.
 
JimLes said:
The Jazz don't play games in a vacuum. It's not just about how bad or good we are, but how good or bad other teams are. There are at least 6-7 teams in the East simply worse than the Jazz, and most of them actively tanking. The West may be tougher, but there are still bad teams like the Blazers and the Spurs, and others who are probably not better than the Jazz like the Rockets or even the Grizzlies.

Then there are so many aging teams with bloated overall salaries and no improvement from last year that the bottom just has to fall out for some of them. The Suns won 49 games, the Lakers won 47, the Clippers won 51. All 3 got older and all 3 arguably got worse. The Clippers would be my bet to finish with under 35 wins, but any of these could do it.

Barring a situation where both Lauri and Collin tear their ACLs, it's really hard to see the Jazz be worse than all the bad teams in the East or even some of these over-the-hill teams in the West. The Jazz can take the loss of their 4th or 5th best player and just plug in another young prospect. The Suns would be starting G-Leaguers at that point.
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Yeah, I really dont see the Jazz losing to the Clippers at home, especially if there is any kind of rest advantage that favors the Jazz, even possibly without Lauri.

But maybe that's where Utah FO/CS will come in and sit Sexton/Lauri/Clarkson just ensure those are losses...
 
I don't think people understand what playing in the Western conference with a rotation heavy with 1st and 2nd year players looks like. It looks a lot like last year's Portland team.
 
framer said:
I don't think people understand what playing in the Western conference with a rotation heavy with 1st and 2nd year players looks like. It looks a lot like last year's Portland team.
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Portland doesnt have a top tier coach or a top 25 player...
 
We may win a little bit more, but I think our season will have the same tone as SAS last season. It’s just different when you’re playing for development.

Speaking of SAS….they aren’t THAT different from last season and I wouldn’t put it past Pop to pull another epic tank. I think we’re definitely in the bottom 2 of west teams but SAS could get back there.

The more talent you have concentrated in the fewest amount of players the easier it is to pull the plug. Both UTA and SAS are capable of this.
 
idiot said:
But they have something even more important: a top-5 draftee from a loaded draft. And they've done it right -- back-to-back bottom 5 finishes in the league. They're sitting so much prettier than we are now.

</tank logic>
</sarcasm>
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Portland is a bad frachise that has poor luck as well. San Antonto is great frachise with amazing luck. when they see a future franchise player coming up the draft cycle they plan their tank jobs and hope for luck. it takes complete confidence by the coach that they will not be fired and a GM who understands sometimes you got suck for a chance at a great player. it is not guaranteed. portland is a great example. the 76s tanked for 4 straight years before landing embid. you just have to know what years you need to suck and go for it.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I agree they understand, but every win/loss matters if you want the top 5 odds. I just dont think this team has that level of suck in them for 82 games.
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We have enough suck... we have ways of finding more suck too. Are we Hawk Tuah levels of suck? Nah. 5th/6th best odds is basically where I have been for a while. I'd prefer better odds but that likely requires making a move or an injury.
 
oldtimer said:
Portland is a bad frachise that has poor luck as well. San Antonto is great frachise with amazing luck. when they see a future franchise player coming up the draft cycle they plan their tank jobs and hope for luck. it takes complete confidence by the coach that they will not be fired and a GM who understands sometimes you got suck for a chance at a great player. it is not guaranteed. portland is a great example. the 76s tanked for 4 straight years before landing embid. you just have to know what years you need to suck and go for it.
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Portland's bottom-5 finishes were the exact same years as San Antonio's bottom-5 finishes. You're right about the luck. But luck isn't something you have much control of, no matter how wonderful a franchise you are.

Btw, SA muddled around with 3 years between 32 and 34 wins before their bottom-5 finishes, missing out on players such as Anthony Edwards and Chet Holmgren in the process. Maybe we need 1 more season of wins in the 30s to properly follow this great franchise's model?
 
The Jazz coaching staff have been talking a lot about young players focusing a lot on raising their floor on their bad day. And they seemed to take it to heart: Kessler, Keyonte, Brice, Hendricks and Juzang make way less silly mistakes and keep their focus. The problem is that it raises the floor for the entire team quite a bit. And even the upcoming rookies have some skills that immediately make them less than horrible why they are learning the ropes in their first games (defense for Cody, passing and 3-pointers for Filipowski). The Jazz are also quite young and deep and not likely to lose many games to injuries as the teams with older vets.

If they want to finish in the bottom 5 they will need to trade one or even two out of Sexton, Clarkson and Collins.
 
framer said:
I don't think people understand what playing in the Western conference with a rotation heavy with 1st and 2nd year players looks like. It looks a lot like last year's Portland team.
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You underestimate how much Will Hardy is going to play the vets
 
idiot said:
Portland's bottom-5 finishes were the exact same years as San Antonio's bottom-5 finishes. You're right about the luck. But luck isn't something you have much control of, no matter how wonderful a franchise you are.

Btw, SA muddled around with 3 years between 32 and 34 wins before their bottom-5 finishes, missing out on players such as Anthony Edwards and Chet Holmgren in the process. Maybe we need 1 more season of wins in the 30s to properly follow this great franchise's model?
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This is very true. Not only do you need luck to get the top pick itself, but it’s also somewhat of a dice roll as to who you get at the top of the draft. We were having this discussion in the other thread, but HOU has now had four top 4 picks in a row. While those players still have plenty of time to prove their worth, certainly no Wemby’s or every guaranteed all stars. Nobody can even blame them for making those selections without the benefit of hindsight.

Even when there’s a “sure thing” like Wemby. Ok, so you have a maximum of 14% chance that you’re a genius and otherwise you’re just dumb?
 
in a draft with one star you can be a genius or dumb based on lottery luck. however everything i read says next year is super special. best in many many years. tanking hard and getting a guaranteed top five pick by finishinng with one of the worst records is my dream. i agree with Cy that we are not one of the top 4 worse teams. thats why i want hardy to tank hard by playing youngsters and benching hot players in the 4th quarter. we are going to need to try to tank games.
 
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