Are there any Kanter apologists left? What are they saying?

[illyasova]

I've noticed a decrease in posts coming from Turkish posters. Some have probably gone to root for OKC. Sad. I'm Spanish but I'll smile every time Gobert sends Gasol crying back to the locker room, and will never root for the Grizzlies or say the Bulls just because they have a good Spanish player. Just my 2 cents on this issue.

Most Turkish fans are still here to root Kanterless jazz. Some just do not write posts so often even though they follow forums regularly just like me. Honestly; OKC is the team to root for us too to see them in the playoffs and have a chance to see Kanter out there.
Kanter's trade is win win situation for both of sides which has been surprising me. I was guessing Kanter's trade due to team chemistry, his cost to the team but was not expecting this overall performance of Gobert. Jazz is happy to have perfect duo of Gobert-Favors, Kanter is happy to have better playoff team and covering more news for the paycheck in the offseason.

 

[mhindy]

Most Turkish fans are still here to root Kanterless jazz. Some just do not write posts so often even though they follow forums regularly just like me. Honestly; OKC is the team to root for us too to see them in the playoffs and have a chance to see Kanter out there.
Kanter's trade is win win situation for both of sides which has been surprising me. I was guessing Kanter's trade due to team chemistry, his cost to the team but was not expecting this overall performance of Gobert. Jazz is happy to have perfect duo of Gobert-Favors, Kanter is happy to have better playoff team and covering more news for the paycheck in the offseason.

Yep. Obviously it would have been nice to get more back for him, but it's pretty clear at this point that moving him was correct. Hard to complain too much when Gobert is playing like he is.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I was a huge proponent of the trade. Once he made the demand, that was it.

That said, I would have LOVED to have Kanter as our third big. He's a very good offensive player. He's fully capable of putting up close to 20/10 as a starter playing 36 mins. But he was a) never going to accept coming off the bench and b) was going to demand a max contract (or close to it).

There is no doubt Rudy is a franchise player. His elite defense changes every game. We've seen so many bigs get frustrated...from Duncan to Aldridge to Gasol. Even with just a rudimentary offensive game, Gobert is already the Jazz player you have to build around. You add to that the attitude he brings, which others feed off of - he's the franchise player we were always hoping to have some day (and a superstar if he can develop an offensive game out to the FT line).

With Kanter/Favors we were hoping the defense would be adequate. And the big drawback is it usually left Favors as the primary inside defender. Kanter is going to put up pretty good numbers wherever he goes. He's like Big Al in that respect. But we went from good to great at the 5. And the change allows Favors to be at the 4. Kanter at $10M off the bench would have been great for the team. Kanter at $16M just doesn't fit.

 

[sgjazzfan]

The jazz didn't get value for a player who didn't exist?

Srs, braugh, pass me whatever you're smoking.

You clearly lack reading comprehension.

 

[zman1527]

Yet the Hawks are one of the best teams in the NBA with Sap as their PF. I have no idea how accurate this site is, but on defensive ratings it has Milsap 3rd in defensive rating and 4th in defensive win shares https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015_leaders.html. Can't find a lot of other sites that show individual defensive rating, but I don't think you'd argue any of the other top 10 are among the best in the league.

I see that on your link. So Sap is a better defender than Rudy? Well, shut my mouth. Why couldn't we see that when he was here?

Nice work, but I think those ratings must have a serious flaw. Sap is just not that good a defender. His team is so it must flow from that and all their wins. These guys have him ranked 23 out of 47: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...st-defensive-power-forwards-in-the-nba/page/2. To be fair, Favors is ranked only 2 above him.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Great posts by addictionary and ilyasova. One point to make is that Lindsey said they HAD been trying to trade Kanter before his public demand. We'll never know if there were offers that were marginally better. I don't think OKC would have made a deal if Adams hadn't been hurt. They're on the playoff fringe and couldn't afford to just wait it out until he returns. And, a lot of teams always wait until the 11th hour to make deals with one side trying to get more value and the other trying to give up less.

Main point is you don't try to eke out another late first when you have a highly motivated player who NEEDS to start. And you don't continue trying to placate a player who clearly doesn't want to be around anymore. I think, even in the summer, the best we could have received for Enes was two firsts. Or he signs a $15M offer sheet, we decline and get NOTHING! We got one first and a possible bench player in Pleiss. Good enough. Team chemistry improves and Gobert/Favors are free to start wreaking defensive havoc on the reat of the league. Also allows Utah to see if Booker can be a third big and if they want to perhaps re-sign Evans.

Not all players are going to stick with their teams. When you can upgrade, you do it. Jazz now have one of the BEST front courts in the league. And they're just babies. WE are SO lucky. As Bolerjack would say, BUCKLE UP. This is gonna be a helluva ride for the next 10 years.

 

[CAKAR]

Pelicans are 5:1 since the Davis Injury...

Jazz are playing hard as a team, but Iam still not convinced that this will pay off longterm.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Well, Portland was just struggling that night and didn't have Afflalo. San Antonio is still a "work in progress". Denver Just had to fire their coach, so they are obviously a mess. Milwakee is still getting used to their new players, and Grizzlies were missing "key personnel". Jazz lost to the lakers for heavens sake, so obviously they are missing Kanter and much worse off.

And we're playing with a 19 yr old PG who is as timid as a mouse and our starting SG is out for the season. We're also a work in progress missing a couple of key components. We do miss Kanter offensively. I've said that many times. We'd be a much better team if we had him coming off the bench. But he wasn't going to do that. Jazz starting unit only has Hayward and Favors as real weapons. But just imagine how good we're GOING to be when we have a couple of guards who can and will hit shots.

 

[addictionary]

Pelicans are 5:1 since the Davis Injury...

Jazz are playing hard as a team, but Iam still not convinced that this will pay off longterm.

Words of wisdom Lloyd. Words of wisdom.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Pelicans are 5:1 since the Davis Injury...

Jazz are playing hard as a team, but Iam still not convinced that this will pay off longterm.

Good win on the road against Miami in the game he got hurt. After that...meh. Eked out home wins against Toronto, Brooklyn and Miami. Then a road win @ Denver. Not exactly stellar competition. Lost at Dallas. Before the win streak they had lost 4 straight WITH Davis. Guess that means they should trade AD.

As for the Jazz, it's astounding you don't recognize the elite defense we have. Yes, our back court needs improving. But keep in mind our starter (Burks) is out and we have an incredibly raw PG running the show. We also have an extremely young bench. IINM, don't we have the 2nd youngest roster? I think Philly has us beat in that respect. Yet we have one of the top defenses over the last month. Not only is this sustainable, we're going to get even better!

 

[Jamezz]

I was a huge proponent of the trade. Once he made the demand, that was it.

That said, I would have LOVED to have Kanter as our third big. He's a very good offensive player. He's fully capable of putting up close to 20/10 as a starter playing 36 mins. But he was a) never going to accept coming off the bench and b) was going to demand a max contract (or close to it).

There is no doubt Rudy is a franchise player. His elite defense changes every game. We've seen so many bigs get frustrated...from Duncan to Aldridge to Gasol. Even with just a rudimentary offensive game, Gobert is already the Jazz player you have to build around. You add to that the attitude he brings, which others feed off of - he's the franchise player we were always hoping to have some day (and a superstar if he can develop an offensive game out to the FT line).

With Kanter/Favors we were hoping the defense would be adequate. And the big drawback is it usually left Favors as the primary inside defender. Kanter is going to put up pretty good numbers wherever he goes. He's like Big Al in that respect. But we went from good to great at the 5. And the change allows Favors to be at the 4. Kanter at $10M off the bench would have been great for the team. Kanter at $16M just doesn't fit.

Very solid.

 

[Shocker00]

^wow, this bozo thinks his notion of value is better than a real-life GM's.

Given the situation, the jazz got full value for Kanter. Claiming otherwise is an exercise in hearing yourself speak, and nothing more.

Haha.....your a very defensive person. Calm down it will be okay. Let me enlighten you with a little bit of knowledge. Just because someone's a GM doesn't mean they excel at their position. How successful was Billy King, Isiah Thomas, Elgin Baylor? Just because someone is a coach doesn't mean they are a good coach, look no further than Corbin as a example. Just because your a GM of the Utah Jazz doesn't mean you can't make mistakes. I just feel trading a early second round draft pick in a deep draft for a later draft pick in a weaker draft wasn't the best move possible. I think in return you could have gotten a late 1st round pick. I don't remember who it was but someone that drafted about 10 spots behind the Jazz got two 2nd round draft picks for their 2nd round pick. In my opinion we could have done without Pleiss, Jarrett, and the two 2nd rounders which most likely won't amount to much and got a better protected 1st round pick. Which leads me to Golden State, Lindsey really help them become a good team. I just think taking on all their bad contracts and paying 23-25 million for two late first rounds picks just seems overpriced to me. Of course this is my opinion and not yours or Dennis Lindsey's, I never claimed to be an expert. I simply voiced my opinion on the forum just like your doing.



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[Jamezz]

Haha.....your a very defensive person. Calm down it will be okay. Let me enlighten you with a little bit of knowledge. Just because someone's a GM doesn't mean they excel at their position. How successful was Billy King, Isiah Thomas, Elgin Baylor? Just because someone is a coach doesn't mean they are a good coach, look no further than Corbin as a example. Just because your a GM of the Utah Jazz doesn't mean you can't make mistakes. I just feel trading a early second round draft pick in a deep draft for a later draft pick in a weaker draft wasn't the best move possible. I think in return you could have gotten a late 1st round pick. I don't remember who it was but someone that drafted about 10 spots behind the Jazz got two 2nd round draft picks for their 2nd round pick. In my opinion we could have done without Pleiss, Jarrett, and the two 2nd rounders which most likely won't amount to much and got a better protected 1st round pick. Which leads me to Golden State, Lindsey really help them become a good team. I just think taking on all their bad contracts and paying 23-25 million for two late first rounds picks just seems overpriced to me. Of course this is my opinion and not yours or Dennis Lindsey's, I never claimed to be an expert. I simply voiced my opinion on the forum just like your doing.



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You'll get used to NAOS' attempts at bullying newcomers...

 

[MT Steve]

Pelicans are 5:1 since the Davis Injury...

Jazz are playing hard as a team, but Iam still not convinced that this will pay off longterm.

Pelicans strength of schedule during that span was 0.490 with an average scoring margin of +3.83.

Utah's was 0.525 with an average scoring margin of +10.33.

The two runs aren't really comparable.

 

[Shocker00]

I actually been posting and reading here for around 5 years now so I'm used to it, I just don't post often.


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[Nate505]

On the whole "did the Jazz get value for Kanter" thing, how does Kanter get some sort of free pass for demanding a trade and lowering his value? That's where all of the ire for him comes from me.

 

[gregbroncs]

Everybody knew that Kanter didn't want to be with the Jazz. I know that the Jazz didn't have any trade leverage. This meant that the Jazz had to take less back, and the other team was going to get a steal. Kanter had been wanting to be traded for a while before it happened, and wasn't buying into the system. If that were not the case, he would have been much better for the Jazz, and could have helped them. Value can mean many different things. While I realize that the Jazz probably couldn't have gotten much better for Kanter in a trade, the players we got back (and the second round draft pick) are not close to the value a motivated Kanter brings to your team.

Oh, and what I stated about the other players is an opinion *** hole. Look up the definition of that.

You realize we also got a 1st round pick? Because you have conveniently left that out 2 posts in a row now.

 

[NAOS]

Haha.....your a very defensive person. Calm down it will be okay. Let me enlighten you with a little bit of knowledge. Just because someone's a GM doesn't mean they excel at their position. How successful was Billy King, Isiah Thomas, Elgin Baylor? Just because someone is a coach doesn't mean they are a good coach, look no further than Corbin as a example. Just because your a GM of the Utah Jazz doesn't mean you can't make mistakes. I just feel trading a early second round draft pick in a deep draft for a later draft pick in a weaker draft wasn't the best move possible. I think in return you could have gotten a late 1st round pick. I don't remember who it was but someone that drafted about 10 spots behind the Jazz got two 2nd round draft picks for their 2nd round pick. In my opinion we could have done without Pleiss, Jarrett, and the two 2nd rounders which most likely won't amount to much and got a better protected 1st round pick. Which leads me to Golden State, Lindsey really help them become a good team. I just think taking on all their bad contracts and paying 23-25 million for two late first rounds picks just seems overpriced to me. Of course this is my opinion and not yours or Dennis Lindsey's, I never claimed to be an expert. I simply voiced my opinion on the forum just like your doing.



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All of the history you just cited -- every single bit of it -- is glaringly incomplete.

 

[Stifle Tower]

What I find amusing is so many posters slammed the Jazz for not getting at least SOMETHING - even a 2nd-rounder for Milsap or Big Al. Yet we got a future 1st and other assets for a guy who we probably would have let walk at a contract above $13-14M (maybe even less).

 

[sgjazzfan]

I see that on your link. So Sap is a better defender than Rudy? Well, shut my mouth. Why couldn't we see that when he was here?

Nice work, but I think those ratings must have a serious flaw. Sap is just not that good a defender. His team is so it must flow from that and all their wins. These guys have him ranked 23 out of 47: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...st-defensive-power-forwards-in-the-nba/page/2. To be fair, Favors is ranked only 2 above him.

OK, so I may have been wrong by saying he's one of the best. He is more than adequate as a defender. He is on one of the best defensive teams in the league, clearly it wasn't him holding back our defense. Maybe it was Korver (oh wait). Also, that article is from before last season even started.