As of today, is it fair to doubt the organization's commitment to the playoffs next year?

[seattlejazzfan]

Franklin, it's not the Millers, it's Dennis Lindsey and Quin Snyder.

 

[kabenac]

I figured at most we'd make a trade and sign perhaps 1-2 guys. If Pleiss comes over then perhaps we sign one other player. And if Neto comes over this is our team + one or two of the question mark guys or maybe a signing of someone else. We still may do a trade (Burke for a pick) and if not we have a full roster:


Exum/Burke
Hood/Burks/Millsap
Hayward/Ingles (assuming we sign or match)
Favors/Booker/Lyles
Gobert

That's 11 guys right there. That means three more spots....

...Questions marks: Cotton, Evans, Jarrett, Johnson, Hanlan, Cooley

Guessing Cotton stays on the team unless Neto comes over or Hanlan makes the team. Would be surprised to see Evans return. Of Jarrett, Johnson and Cooley I would give the edge to Johnson but none might make the team.

 

[Xsy]

It seriously blows my mind how many Jazz fans are losin' their **** over this free agency period. It's as if some of you guys WANT us on the treadmill again.

I want development. We've rebuilt the team, and now it's time to grow the team. Throwing in mismatched pieces just for the hell of it is gonna screw things up. This is a long process, and it's stupid to shake things up now. If we want the maximum development of our pieces, we need to develop them. I know, this logic is too much for some of you to handle, but just trust me. Developing players takes development. Development takes time. I can't believe I have to literally spell this out for some of you. It is impossible to go from 10th seed to contender overnight, unless you sign LeBron James. Unfortunately, we have no such luck.

What we DO have are around seven players that are 25 or younger, and 48 minutes to distribute between them. Let's develop them, raise their stock. And if/when things don't work out for us, we'll know for sure what holes need filling, and which players need trading.

But until then, can you guys just ... chill out, for one damn season?

 

[olden_undercover]

Because making the playoffs and losing in the first round is a waste of a year if Exum, Favors and Gobert don't take steps forward.

If those three stagnate, we are competing for titles.

Develop those three, then build around them. If you build around them too soon, they don't develop as well and we never reach out potential.

This year is not about playoffs, but about individuals.

The good news is, if individuals improve like we hope, then playoffs probably happen.

For example, if you can get Exum to be more aggressive, then his assist numbers go up. If his assist numbers go up, then someone's points go up, and hopefully it Favors and Gobert out of the pick and roll. If his assist numbers go up, defenses lag, giving him more room to score. His confidence soars and he starts to look like a #5 pick.

It boils down to this: I'd rather have Favors get 23 and 10, Gobert get 12 and 10 and 3, and Exum get 15 and 8 than make then playoffs.

That would be a much better accomplishment than making the playoffs.

Oh, okay. Semantics. I don't know if placing development as the main priority means a first-round playoff appearance (and likely out) is not also a goal. Playoff experience in and of itself is uniquely valuable, and I'm sure they'd love for the guys to have it sooner than later. Otherwise, I'm picking up what you're putting down, and I agree.

 

[NAOS]

It seriously blows my mind how many Jazz fans are losin' their **** over this free agency period. It's as if some of you guys WANT us on the treadmill again.

I want development. We've rebuilt the team, and now it's time to grow the team. Throwing in mismatched pieces just for the hell of it is gonna screw things up. This is a long process, and it's stupid to shake things up now. If we want the maximum development of our pieces, we need to develop them. I know, this logic is too much for some of you to handle, but just trust me. Developing players takes development. Development takes time. I can't believe I have to literally spell this out for some of you. It is impossible to go from 10th seed to contender overnight, unless you sign LeBron James. Unfortunately, we have no such luck.

What we DO have are around seven players that are 25 or younger, and 48 minutes to distribute between them. Let's develop them, raise their stock. And if/when things don't work out for us, we'll know for sure what holes need filling, and which players need trading.

But until then, can you guys just ... chill out, for one damn season?

Who suggested that we do this??

lol

 

[olden_undercover]

Franklin, it's not the Millers, it's Dennis Lindsey and Quin Snyder.

No, dude.

DL and QS are puppets of the Millers. And the Millers are puppets of the Secret Owl Society. And the Secret Owl Society is run by the alien super-race. And we're all living inside a real-life version of the Matrix.

Wake up.

 

[Xsy]

Who suggested that we do this??

lol

Most of the FA and trade ideas I've seen floating around on Twitter have been garbage. I don't read trade or signing proposals on JazzFanz, so I can't point fingers at anyone here.

Even if people wanted us to sign a good guy like Middleton, I still think the 7 young players we have now is still more than enough for our coaching staff to work with for one season.

 

[Stoked]

Because making the playoffs and losing in the first round is a waste of a year if Exum, Favors and Gobert don't take steps forward.

If those three stagnate, we are competing for titles.

Develop those three, then build around them. If you build around them too soon, they don't develop as well and we never reach out potential.

This year is not about playoffs, but about individuals.

The good news is, if individuals improve like we hope, then playoffs probably happen.

For example, if you can get Exum to be more aggressive, then his assist numbers go up. If his assist numbers go up, then someone's points go up, and hopefully it Favors and Gobert out of the pick and roll. If his assist numbers go up, defenses lag, giving him more room to score. His confidence soars and he starts to look like a #5 pick.

It boils down to this: I'd rather have Favors get 23 and 10, Gobert get 12 and 10 and 3, and Exum get 15 and 8 than make then playoffs.

That would be a much better accomplishment than making the playoffs.

If they make the playoffs it is because those players took steps forward.

 

[Deleted member 848]

It seriously blows my mind how many Jazz fans are losin' their **** over this free agency period. It's as if some of you guys WANT us on the treadmill again.

I want development. We've rebuilt the team, and now it's time to grow the team. Throwing in mismatched pieces just for the hell of it is gonna screw things up. This is a long process, and it's stupid to shake things up now. If we want the maximum development of our pieces, we need to develop them. I know, this logic is too much for some of you to handle, but just trust me. Developing players takes development. Development takes time. I can't believe I have to literally spell this out for some of you. It is impossible to go from 10th seed to contender overnight, unless you sign LeBron James. Unfortunately, we have no such luck.

What we DO have are around seven players that are 25 or younger, and 48 minutes to distribute between them. Let's develop them, raise their stock. And if/when things don't work out for us, we'll know for sure what holes need filling, and which players need trading.

But until then, can you guys just ... chill out, for one damn season?

Sig-wrothy.

Gonna copy and paste the link to your post any-time I see the mouth-breathers bitching about a bulldog or something.

 

[franklin]

Contrarianism can be quite addicting, Franklin. Might want to get that checked.

Nothing contrarian about it, dude.

I don't want or expect the Jazz to sign any meaningful free agents unless they seriously move the needle. I don't need to build a comfort quilt of dumb *** excuses for why they didn't go out and spend on someone, anyone no matter what to calm myself over a non-issue.

If the Jazz don't sign anyone it means they ARE NOT SKIPPING STEPS. It doesn't mean this group is championship caliber or they have some card up there sleeve or some stashed Euro is going to come over and beat LeBron out for MVP next year.

 

[green]

If they make the playoffs it is because those players took steps forward.

Sigh.

 

[franklin]

It seriously blows my mind how many Jazz fans are losin' their **** over this free agency period. It's as if some of you guys WANT us on the treadmill again.

I want development. We've rebuilt the team, and now it's time to grow the team. Throwing in mismatched pieces just for the hell of it is gonna screw things up. This is a long process, and it's stupid to shake things up now. If we want the maximum development of our pieces, we need to develop them. I know, this logic is too much for some of you to handle, but just trust me. Developing players takes development. Development takes time. I can't believe I have to literally spell this out for some of you. It is impossible to go from 10th seed to contender overnight, unless you sign LeBron James. Unfortunately, we have no such luck.

What we DO have are around seven players that are 25 or younger, and 48 minutes to distribute between them. Let's develop them, raise their stock. And if/when things don't work out for us, we'll know for sure what holes need filling, and which players need trading.

But until then, can you guys just ... chill out, for one damn season?

Repped but want to point out how tiresome this line that the Jazz are young and need time to develop is. Hayward, Favors, and Burks are veterans. Trey and Gobert have plenty experience under their belts. They are all young, and there are some youngins, but let's not act like players with 5,000-10,000 career minutes are green rookies.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Repped but want to point out how tiresome this line that the Jazz are young and need time to develop is. Hayward, Favors, and Burks are veterans. Trey and Gobert have plenty experience under their belts. They are all young, and there are some youngins, but let's not act like players with 5,000-10,000 career minutes are green rookies.

Dammit. Had to rep Franklin. Great post. Young, but seasoned and quietly well developed.

 

[gregbroncs]

Repped but want to point out how tiresome this line that the Jazz are young and need time to develop is. Hayward, Favors, and Burks are veterans. Trey and Gobert have plenty experience under their belts. They are all young, and there are some youngins, but let's not act like players with 5,000-10,000 career minutes are green rookies.

They are not green rookies. But they are just barely entering their prime, actually in most cases they are still a few years away. So there is a lot of room for internal improvement.

 

[fishonjazz]

They are not green rookies. But they are just barely entering their prime, actually in most cases they are still a few years away. So there is a lot of room for internal improvement.

This.
Youngest starting line-up in the league last year iirc. = seasoned vets lol

 

[Dr. Jones]

You don't overpay for veterans in free agency unless you are contending.
We aren't there yet. We will be a playoff team but we don't have playoff/clutch experience yet.
Give these guys the chance to play and develop.
We complained we never played young guys during the Sloan and Corbin times.
Now we are committed.
We are stacked with talent. This is the year to see if Trey can understand his role and if Alec fits well and his outside shot was not a fluke.
We have enough young talent as it is that needs playing time. We already have good glue guys like Ingles and Booker.
We have chemistry and the Kanter trade brought everyone together.

Exam - Trey - Cotton or Hanlan
Burks - Hood - Millsap
Hayward - Hood - Ingles
Favors - Booker
Gobert - Favors - Pleiss

The key will be the outside shot. If we have outside shooting we will be one of the best in the west.
If we aren't consistent from the outside we will be 6-9 in the west.
I say give Trey until January to come around. If he still is trying to be Iverson then trade him to the Sixers for nothing.

You are testing me with that PG depth chart.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don't think the playoffs are anywhere on Utah's list of goals. Playoffs are irrelevant right now. Their goals should be:

Get Favors to All Star level. 23 and 10.
Get Exum involved on offense 10 and 6.
Get Gobert on All NBA defensive list.
Find out if Hood/Burks can fit with the starters or if they are both bench chuckers that need the ball to be effective.

That's it. If Exum doesn't an out, we can kiss title dreaming good bye. Exum, Favors and Gobert are the future.

If we make the playoffs, great. If Exum explodes and we miss the playoffs? Even better.

So... you want everyone on the team to improve substantially... but don't think the team will be better? Or you don't care if they do?

In conclusion, what the **** are you talking about?

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I think part of the value of the Kanter trade was dumping Novak. It wasn't a horrible trade I just think Masai either wins the trade or he doesn't do the deal.

Sometimes both sides win. My gut tells me he will lose the Carroll signing, though. He paid way too much for a guy who doesn't fit his team as well as the team he came from. I will be very surprised if Carroll's stats go up this year.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Good for Massai, he can win them all as long as DL wins his gambles, which he has imo.

All im saying.

Lindsey's gambles:
-Trading up for Burke
-letting Millsap, Carroll, and Al walk for nothing in order to...
-tank (they got Exum)

By my scorecard, his gambles are below .500. Burke hasn't been good, And Exum hasn't been particularly great either (they're both young, so we don't have to trade them Fs, but they haven't proven to be As yet either). Meanwhile, two all-stars were born, and one became one of the better wings in the NBA when they walked.

Lindsey's greatest achievements thus far haven't really been gambles. Getting Gobert at #27 is 26 teams being completely ****ing retarded and Hood being there that late was also weird (although he deserves credit for acquiring that pick). He deserves credit for getting Gobert all the same, but the Jazz spent squat in assets to get it, hardly a gamble. Maybe I'm splitting hairs here a bit. But on these points, the Jazz could easily have kept Carroll and Millsap and STILL gotten Hood (with their own pick) and Gobert (with their own pick) even if they were making the playoffs.

Things have started to go well on his watch, but it's important to be honest with ourselves. From what information is available, I can only say I have faith in his vision and overall resume, and that he's shown a willingness to work the market. But his swings for the fences haven't yielded anything... yet.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

Lindsey's gambles:
-Trading up for Burke
-letting Millsap, Carroll, and Al walk for nothing in order to...
-tank (they got Exum)

By my scorecard, his gambles are below .500. Burke hasn't been good, And Exum hasn't been particularly great either (they're both young, so we don't have to trade them Fs, but they haven't proven to be As yet either). Meanwhile, two all-stars were born, and one became one of the better wings in the NBA when they walked.

Lindsey's greatest achievements thus far haven't really been gambles. Getting Gobert at #27 is 26 teams being completely ****ing retarded and Hood being there that late was also weird (although he deserves credit for acquiring that pick). He deserves credit for getting Gobert all the same, but the Jazz spent squat in assets to get it, hardly a gamble. Maybe I'm splitting hairs here a bit. But on these points, the Jazz could easily have kept Carroll and Millsap and STILL gotten Hood (with their own pick) and Gobert (with their own pick) even if they were making the playoffs.

Things have started to go well on his watch, but it's important to be honest with ourselves. From what information is available, I can only say I have faith in his vision and overall resume, and that he's shown a willingness to work the market. But his swings for the fences haven't yielded anything... yet.

Realism hurts these guys they believe Jazz brass are magic or they blame the Millers.