Douchebag K
Well-Known Member
People getting hangry ??
Attempted Coup Underway in Venezuela
- Thread starter Red
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Not only do I find Maduro a bad leader, but I Support the coup because Putin doesn't. Putin doesn’t want dictators to be toppled over fear that such demonstrations could happen to him. So I say, get rid of Maduro. And hopefully that leads someday to changes in other authoritarian countries around the world, especially Russia. If we’re supporting the coup then I hope we win.
Would have been great if the US government and CIA thought that before they started to destabilise the country.
@Rubashov
Congratulations! The Russian Mafia-Intelligence Complex has beaten back the U.S. Military Industrial Complex yet again. They're on a pretty significant winning streak against us. The U.S. dynasty seems to be coming to an end. We'll be getting outplayed by the Chinese soon enough. Then India, then the EU, then Brazil... We'll be everyone's punching bag eventually. Yay!
Congratulations! The Russian Mafia-Intelligence Complex has beaten back the U.S. Military Industrial Complex yet again. They're on a pretty significant winning streak against us. The U.S. dynasty seems to be coming to an end. We'll be getting outplayed by the Chinese soon enough. Then India, then the EU, then Brazil... We'll be everyone's punching bag eventually. Yay!
The American century is over my friend. And look I would celebrate whats happened in Venezuela if i thought it meant the end of American adventures in South America but I doubt it will. America's biggest problem since the end of the cold war has been a failure to develop consensus and a tendency toward unilateralism. I could probably write a few thousand words on this but i'll leave it at that.
lauriandres
Well-Known Member
Rubashov, maybe i missed my history class, but AFAIK with the exception of Grenada, the US troops have not been in the South America? Maybe some CIA etc agents, but IF the nation is against the coup organised by external power, then the coup wont happen? For example, when the Pinochet got the power - wasn't it the chileans themselves who did the actual coup; or are the south americans that kind of nation who will happily kill their wife, parents, teacher etc and freedom should somebody offer them couple of thousands of dollars...
Getting Traded
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You better brush up on your history lauriandres because what you are saying is ridiculous. The CIA engineered the coups in Chile and Guatemala, just for starters, and tried for many years to oust Castro in Cuba -- check out this article for more detailed information that doesn't include what the CIA was doing behind the scenes: https://revista.drclas.harvard.edu/book/united-states-interventions
lauriandres
Well-Known Member
Eenie-Meenie - how can CIA arrange coup, if local population is opposing it? Shouldn't locals take a big part of blame if they are so greedy, that are ready to kill their neighbour for extra dollars? Well, maybe south americans are different and maybe i have not had chance to have huge amount of money, but are you saying that even i will happily kill somebody should CIA offer a la 1 million USD to me?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_the_Americas_Watch
Anyway back to how you are trying to frame your pointless drivel, I said nothing about american troops but talked of american adventures, that very much includes your criminal CIA and their disgusting human rights violations, puppet dictators and general disregard for democracy. Lets face it are South Americans that different from American politicians who sell out their constituents for corporate cash? Its all greed at the end of the day innit?
Now back on your bike champ.
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lauriandres
Well-Known Member
Obiviously, you are not a golfer
. I am not an american.CIA can bribe some politicians but not entire nation; IMHO it is up to the nation to not follow corrupt politicians. I am pretty sure that if our military leader would receive several millions to make a coup and make an order "Lets attack the government office with heavy artillery" then all the other troops would just laugh.
Obiviously, you are not a golfer
CIA can bribe some politicians but not entire nation; IMHO it is up to the nation to not follow corrupt politicians. I am pretty sure that if our military leader would receive several millions to make a coup and make an order "Lets attack the government office with heavy artillery" then all the other troops would just laugh.
Dude nobody is as naive as you are pretending to be, stop talking your weak arsed **** Lobowski.
On this point I don't think he's being naive at all.
This idea that soldiers (or sailors) are some kind of robots is fantasy ********.
I joined the U.S. Navy with misguided naivete about the nobleness and honor that such an act embodied, but regardless I believed in the principles of serving my nation, possibly at the cost of my own life. By "serving my nation" I had established a pretty narrow definition. That concept was further defined by the oaths I swore, never to the leader of the U.S., never to the conquests, but to the Constitution and to the people. There is no time in the typical enlisted person's journey when they are obligated to anything other than the service of our Constitution and the people. I can't speak for other militaries, but I can speak for the U.S. Navy in this regard. Never would I have violated my obligation to the people. On pain of death. There was never anything that could have compelled me to betray that most fundamental promise. Never in my military training was there an attempt to lead me away from that cause. Never was there any hint that we served any other purpose or owed any obligation to anything greater. Had my superiors walked into the room and told me to betray everything I believed I was serving or die... my own pre-enlistment mindset and everything I had been told I served since would have led me to choose death. I would have NEVER acted against the people of the United States. Never.
Apples and oranges, we're talking about weak states, conscript soldiers with little or no education and a professional officer class drawn from privilege. These military juntas that have ruled South America are defending their own class interests, these things don't happen in a vacuum. The US puts the screws on left wing governments in the region, withdraws loans and investments, makes runs on their currency and so on, then approaches friendly Military officers with inducements, support and promises of WB and IMF loans which the US knows they will steal. I think its is a mark of progress that the US is having a harder time orchestrating coups in these countries, precisely for the very reasons you've outlined.
lauriandres
Well-Known Member
Rubashov, how does the little amount of education completely wipes out the basic human nature of normal humans? I know it sounds rascist, but IMHO there are nations on the Earth who are more prone to manipulation and nations that are not. By manipulation i mean that for a tiny amount of dollars, huge amount of religion brainwashing etc. you are ready to kill your relatives, friends, coworkers etc. A country wont work long, if ordinary people are not blindly following orders without any benefit at all. For example, had the Soviet Union been as oppressive as it was without any benefits at all (living utilities - water, heating etc was basically free, medical procedures were free, etc etc), then it would not had lasted as long it did. Of course, the Pinochet regime was hammered quite hard on the newspapers during the USSR era. I seriously doubt that living conditions for somebody who had above average job at a la HP Chile or IBM Chile between 1980-1985, had worse living conditions than ordinary people in USSR? Of course, USSR had bunch of small nations who had to tolerate the Russian force - but South America does not have anything like that.
lauriandres
Well-Known Member
What is wrong with withdrawing loans and investments? Isn't it up to the USA or its businesses whether to provide loans and investments or not? It is theirs money and they should have 100% control on how, where and when they invest it; of course, the receiver has full rights to complain etc. etc.
So when New Zealand refused to allow US warships armed with either nuclear weapons or nuclear power into their ports the US was justified in trying to destroy their economy? These are countries that are supposed to be long term strategic, cultural and political allies and yet the penalty for Kiwis exercising their democratic beliefs is a ten percent increase in their unemployment rate. And this is how they treat their allies. The US talks about self determination, democracy and human rights and yet when people exercise these against their interests they destroy their societies and overthrow their governments, this is the action of the worst sort of hypocrite and a tyrant.
lauriandres
Well-Known Member
Rubashov, how is it US fault, that unemployment in New Zealand is what it is? Maybe the reason for that is either the skill level or high salary demands? I have not been in NZ (would love to visit), but if the prices in the NZ are on those levels what i have heard, then for example will find countries which have better value for my money that i am able to spend. And if the prices are high - doesn't that mean that NZ has a lot of people who can afford to pay that. From a technical point of view i find no reasons to block ships which have nuclear powered engines; if something bad happens, then it does not probably matter whether the ship is docked in the port or near the coast but outside of the territorial waters. Also, do you have any evidence that US has somehow embargoed or did bad advertising for NZ products and services?
I would have at the moment no problem to have the US warship group that is currently for example near Japan (or in docks in Japan) instead in docks (or territorial waters) in Estonia. Probably would boost our economy quite a bit. And piss of one of our neighbors
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Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
I've never heard anything about this NZ situation. Can you please post links?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_nuclear-free_zone#The_United_States
Article says they're weren't economic consequences but this is not what we were taught at uni (I did international relations, theoretical politics ect) I remember one of my professors talking about it in 2001 saying the Kiwi economy still suffered from it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_policy_of_the_Ronald_Reagan_administration#New_Zealand
The quote in the times from the state department mouthpiece sums it up.
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Getting Traded
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Did you know what the word, "propaganda," means? That's how they persuade or I should say "brainwash" the uninformed masses into supporting American-supported puppets, using disinformation or manufactured lies. Read some books about the CIA. This has been their MO since the 1950s, and now they're doing it to the American people and have been for quite some time -- just about every war effort the U.S. has been involved in, has been supported by disinformation or lies, like the WMD debacle that set in motion the Iraq War. But even far worse, the 9-11 catastrophe. Read some Chomsky and his explanation of "manufactured consent" in supposed modern democracies.Obiviously, you are not a golfer
CIA can bribe some politicians but not entire nation; IMHO it is up to the nation to not follow corrupt politicians. I am pretty sure that if our military leader would receive several millions to make a coup and make an order "Lets attack the government office with heavy artillery" then all the other troops would just laugh.