Bin Laden is dead

[YB85]

You and Marcus were separated at birth, weren't you?

Who are you to decide what someone deserves, especially when it comes to taking their life?

I'm not someone who is going to sit and cry over whether the world's foremost terrorist had his human rights violated. That's who I am. Do you need a band-aid to put on your bleeding heart, you *****?

 

[TroutBum]

I'm not someone who is going to sit and cry over whether the world's foremost terrorist had his human rights violated. That's who I am. Do you need a band-aid to put on your bleeding heart, you *****?

My heart may be clogged with bong resin and fat, but it's not bleeding. I don't care who he is, he's still a human and deserved to be treated like one, regardless of what kind of human being he was. Hate the sin, love the sinner. (I taught Elder's this week, can you tell?)

 

[YB85]

(H)e's still a human and deserved to be treated like one

Even that's debatable.

 

[LogGrad98]

It was exactly to forestall debates like this the the GC was written, so there was a way to handle these issues humanely when emotions are running high.

 

[One Brow]

SaltyDawg, thank you for the long series of quotes that 1) fail to say teh primary purpose was to kill Osama, and 2) completely bypass the notion of what it means to live by the rule of law. I'm sure your next set will be equally unenlightening.

I haven't read through the past 10 or so pages of multiquoted replies, but I have this question for One Brow: Does it really bother you if OBL was summarily executed? Personally, I haven't lost one bit of sleep thinking about whether it was legal or justified. I was more bothered when Clinton and Reno took out David Koresh and the Branch Davidians.

Why should the deaths of a bunch of religious zealouts who were actively resisting arrest bother you more than the death of a religious zealout who was not resisting arrest? A desire for revenge?

We're not talking about a citizen of a sovereign nation who was taken out.

1) So as long as someone is not a citizen, they are fari game?
2) Was his citizenship in Bosnia and Herzegovina revoked, or are they not a sovereign nation?

You ask that if we can do that to OBL, why can't they do that to (me). The answer is that I am a citizen subject to the protection and rights of the Consitution. Now, if I were to renounce my citizenship and take up arms against the country, I shouldn't be surprised when the SEALs come calling in the middle of the night.

Osama bin Laden did not renounce his Saudi citizenship, the Saudi government revoked it.

Personally, I think it's abhorent to pin your basic rights as a human on whether or not you are a citizen of some nation.

 

[Beantown]

Why werent you guys crying about this when the US was trying to bomb him in 2001?

 

[TroutBum]

Why werent you guys crying about this when the US was trying to bomb him in 2001?

How many times are you going to pose this irrelevant question? That was TEN years ago, dill hole. How on Earth do you know if we were crying about it or not? Secondly, a lot can change in TEN years, including beliefs and opinions.

 

[SaltyDawg]

How many times are you going to pose this irrelevant question? That was TEN years ago, dill hole. How on Earth do you know if we were crying about it or not? Secondly, a lot can change in TEN years, including beliefs and opinions.

Yeah, maybe he should have said nobody was crying when we were trying to bomb him almost every day for the last 10 years in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the border between them.

 

[YB85]

Why should the deaths of a bunch of religious zealouts who were actively resisting arrest bother you more than the death of a religious zealout who was not resisting arrest? A desire for revenge?

You mean the deaths of religious zealots along with 25 children? Religious zealots who were suspected of possibly bogus weapons charges? Religious zealots who were attacked because of unsubstantiated suspicions of child abuse? Religious zealots who were subjected to sleep depravation and other psychological tactics? Yeah, for some reason that bothers me more than does the killing of a man who has led the terrorist network that has killed thousands of people throughout the world.

1) So as long as someone is not a citizen, they are fari game?
2) Was his citizenship in Bosnia and Herzegovina revoked, or are they not a sovereign nation?

1- Fair game, as in "this person has declared his intention to continue to threaten and harm people throughout the world and should be taken out". Yes.

2. Didn't Bosnia deny that he was a citizen? If they want to raise issue with the killing of one of their citizens, let them.

Osama bin Laden did not renounce his Saudi citizenship, the Saudi government revoked it.

Personally, I think it's abhorent to pin your basic rights as a human on whether or not you are a citizen of some nation.

And I think it's abhorent to decry the killing of a declared enemy combatant, who was engaged in a hostile situation.

Let Allah sort it out. Peace be with him.

 

[DutchJazzer]

1: What is the point of a sham of a military trial that nobody is allowed into? Do you expect them to spill all their intel secrets for the entire world? The trial would be a sham. Why bother? Would it make you feel better if they said they held a 30 second trial on the battlefield before they executed him? because the "trial" he received would not be any better than that. It would be a secret trial, with only the top military people allowed in, with no information being released.
2: Manning is not a POW captured in battle.
3: We could have secured him, sure, but it still would have given the terrorists something to rally behind. As it stands now we followed Islamic law in dealing with Bin Laden. That's a far cry from holding him in some secret location, probably torturing him, giving him a top secret sham of a trial where he has absolutely no chance to win, and eventually announcing he was found guilty and given the death penalty.
4: The better question is, if they can throw the laws out the window when dealing with me, then why should they bend over backwards to treat Bin Laden with kid gloves? The whole reason we have the Patriot act is because of him.

1. They shouldnt hold a sham trial but a REAL TRIAL.
3. really.
4. laws should never be trhown out of the window when it suits the government. next time they will throw your free speech out of the window.

 

[DutchJazzer]

A trial is a possibilty. if israel did it to nazis who murdered tens of thousand civilians. why cant usa.
eichman was put on trial in a glassbooth. it was no sham trail, all eichman said wa syes i did it yes i did it , i was following orders etc, he did not let the witnesses be cross examined cus he said the witnesses where all telling the truth.

eichman was repsonsible for the death of 430.000 jews. yet america cant bring a measly arab guy to trial who only comitted 3000 murders(sorry to say only. i know 3000 is a lot just using it as a reference to the 430.000)

 

[DutchJazzer]

I agree, since part of that training is the proper use fo the techniques and weaponry he receives (at least, so I have been informed by people familiar with such training). Executing people would be breaking the training, not following it.

I could confirm that since i'm also closely involved and training in similar stuff

 

[candrew]

You guys need to find another flag to wave.

Personally I wish they could re-animate him and then kill him again. Maybe on a weekly basis.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I We're not talking about a citizen of a sovereign nation who was taken out. We're talking about a man without a country who declared war on not just America.

so those people have no rights?

i am kind of sick to be considered belonging to one country or antionalioty
why cant people just be world citizen.

so i have to be a citizen and belong to a country to have rights?

good to know

 

[SaltyDawg]

A trial is a possibilty. if israel did it to nazis who murdered tens of thousand civilians. why cant usa.
eichman was put on trial in a glassbooth. it was no sham trail, all eichman said wa syes i did it yes i did it , i was following orders etc, he did not let the witnesses be cross examined cus he said the witnesses where all telling the truth.

eichman was repsonsible for the death of 430.000 jews. yet america cant bring a measly arab guy to trial who only comitted 3000 murders(sorry to say only. i know 3000 is a lot just using it as a reference to the 430.000)

They put Hitler on trial? That is news to me.

And there was zero chance Bin laden was getting a normal trial. The evidence used to find him was all a result of top secret intel that would compromise other operations. They are not going to call up all the best American secret agents for all the world to identify, and then have them tell the world how they found Bin laden. Zero chance of that happening.

If Bin Laden went on trial, it would have been a private, top secret, military tribunal, with nobody even knowing the location it was held at, let alone actually attending, and no information other than the final verdict being released.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I'm not someone who is going to sit and cry over whether the world's foremost terrorist had his human rights violated. That's who I am. Do you need a band-aid to put on your bleeding heart, you *****?

i'm not sitting and crying that OBL is dead. i am almost 100% sure he is guilty.


i'm sitting and crying about the possibility that he might have just been murdered without a trial. i cry about the possibilty that a country just throws out laws ethics and morals out of the window. what if one day a citzen of a 3rd world coutnry decides to do something stupid against america declares war. there is a possibilty that america might just start murdering citizens of that country.

note: i said Possibility cus i ofcourse dont know what happened. now the shooting of obl might be justified(and by justified i mean he wa slunging for a gun or was about to throw a grenade).

 

[DutchJazzer]

I'm not someone who is going to sit and cry over whether the world's foremost terrorist had his human rights violated. That's who I am. Do you need a band-aid to put on your bleeding heart, you *****?

also might there a possibilty he is just innocent albeit a really small one.

 

[SaltyDawg]

i'm not sitting and crying that OBL is dead. i am almost 100% sure he is guilty.


i'm sitting and crying about the possibility that he might have just been murdered without a trial. i cry about the possibilty that a country just throws out laws ethics and morals out of the window. what if one day a citzen of a 3rd world coutnry decides to do something stupid against america declares war. there is a possibilty that america might just start murdering citizens of that country.

note: i said Possibility cus i ofcourse dont know what happened. now the shooting of obl might be justified(and by justified i mean he wa slunging for a gun or was about to throw a grenade).

If some citizen of a 3rd world county declares war on America, recruits an army to fight America, and uses that army to attack America at every possible opportunity, then hell yeah you better expect America to come after him and his army with everything they have at their disposal. If this is a surprise to you, then welcome to the real world.

 

[One Brow]

You mean the deaths of religious zealots along with 25 children?

If there were children in bin laden's house, do you think the raid should have been called off? Didn't the people in Waco have plenty of opportunitites to send out the children?

Religious zealots who were suspected of possibly bogus weapons charges? Religious zealots who were attacked because of unsubstantiated suspicions of child abuse?

Don't you need a trial to decide if they were bogus? What makes one person less deserving of a trial than another?

Yeah, for some reason that bothers me more than does the killing of a man who has led the terrorist network that has killed thousands of people throughout the world.

Justice by emotion.

1- Fair game, as in "this person has declared his intention to continue to threaten and harm people throughout the world and should be taken out". Yes.

I didn't actually believe you cared about his citizenship status, and figured you tossed it in for no good reason. Thanks for confirming that.

2. Didn't Bosnia deny that he was a citizen?

The denied they made a passport for him, and then later corrected that to denying he picked it up.

If they want to raise issue with the killing of one of their citizens, let them.

So, having no citrizenship was not an issue at all, just a distraction.

And I think it's abhorent to decry the killing of a declared enemy combatant, who was engaged in a hostile situation.

I agree, and no one in this thread has decried that particular situation.

 

[LogGrad98]

They put Hitler on trial? That is news to me.

Where did anyone say that? You know your tendency to twist things to suit your purposes and put words in people's mouths seriously undermine any validity your arguments may have. Your position cannot be very strong if you have to continually fake up inflammatory misrepresentations to strengthen it.