Black Kid Shot in Gated Neighboorhood

[Gyp Rosetti]

Do you think the cop would shoot if they were punched in the face and found themselves on the ground with their head being banged against the cement?

True, the kid deserved what he got. How dare he question or fight back against a delusional loser who's packing and stalking him?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

At what point does Zimmerman forfiet his right to defend himself? He's in the neighborhood watch. He is following someone he thinks is up to no good (we can question why he though that, but it doesn't change the fact that he personally believed the kid was up to no good). If the kid starts to run it only reinforces Zimmerman's belief that he's up to no good. So what does Zimmerman do? He chases after the kid so he can see where he goes or what he does (maybe he thinks the kid is going to ditch stolen goods or drugs and wants to see where he tosses them). The kid runs into a dead end, Zimmerman is there behind him. The kid might be scared, he might be angry at Zimmerman, he might be confused. It's certainly sad being that there is no reason to believe the kid did anything wrong. However, if at this point the kid attacks Zimmerman before Zimmerman gets physical with him, or overtly threatens him, how can you deny Zimmerman the right to defend himself. He doesn't know if the kid can take him in a fight. Weight is a good way to match up pro fighters, it is pretty much irrelevant in this type of confrontation. The kid might have a knife, he might pick up a rock or a stick or a broken bottle. If aqll you know is that he's attacking you then your life is in danger and you have the right to defend yourself. Even racist ******** who harass people have a right to defend themselves.

This is a sad situation, but again, to convict (not judge from afar, that's fair game) you need to prove he was not acting in self defense. It's going to be difficult to do.

He wasn't actually a part of any official neighborhood watch. It was a self anointed title.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Please don't leave out the "fact" that he followed him.

It is followed, stalked, and chased.

I'm liking how you added the "fact" that he terrorized him this time around.

He had to do something to invoke a response. I don't think simply following him would force Trayvon to attack him.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Do you think the cop would shoot if they were punched in the face and found themselves on the ground with their head being banged against the cement?

I think the cop would have tazered him before it came to that. If Zimmerman isn't ready to act as a cop would, then he shouldn't be pretending he's a cop. He should have listened to the real cops and not approached the guy.

Also, if it was a real cop it probably never would have come to that. This wasn't a cop approaching him. It was just some nutjob.

If someone does end up bashing a cop's head in, he probably deserves to get shot. If some nutjob that's been following you starts chasing you, catches you, and you fight him and win, you don't deserve to get shot for it.

 

[Scat]

True, the kid deserved what he got.

I've never said this.

How dare he question or fight back against a delusional loser who's packing and stalking him?

It has never been mentioned by Zimmerman, Treyvon on the phone with his girlfriend or witnesses that Zimmerman showed or mentioned to Treyvon that he had a gun. This brings up a good question. At what point are you within your rights to physically attack someone? Did Zimmerman's actions justify Treyvon to punch him in the face and bang his head against the ground?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I've never said this.



It has never been mentioned by Zimmerman, Treyvon on the phone with his girlfriend or witnesses that Zimmerman showed or mentioned to Treyvon that he had a gun. This brings up a good question. At what point are you within your rights to physically attack someone? Did Zimmerman's actions justify Treyvon to punch him in the face and bang his head against the ground?

She wasn't on the phone during their physical altercation (I believe), so she didn't really hear any of the action. It can't really be known for sure if a punch was thrown first, or a gun was flashed first.

Like I said, this case has a lot of unknowns which makes it a hard one to solve, which is why it seems to be taking so long.

I still find it hard to believe a 240 pound man couldn't beat up a 140 lb 17 year old. At least be strong enough to sit on him.

 

[NUMBERICA]

It has never been mentioned by Zimmerman, Treyvon on the phone with his girlfriend or witnesses that Zimmerman showed or mentioned to Treyvon that he had a gun. This brings up a good question. At what point are you within your rights to physically attack someone? Did Zimmerman's actions justify Treyvon to punch him in the face and bang his head against the ground?

I fail to see how that matters since one person - without a weapon - was killed with a gun. These are the facts on the case. You don't even have to throw conspiracy around or racism accusations. I totally fail to see how the minutiae mentioned above has any bearing on all of this considering everything.

 

[Gameface]

It still wouldn't be okay to shoot him. Even the cops wouldn't shoot someone for looking in a window or checking a car door.

Holy crap, man! That wasn't the question. Would it be okay to follow him and ask him what he was doing if he was peering in windows and checking car doors?

 

[Gameface]

He wasn't actually a part of any official neighborhood watch. It was a self anointed title.

Aren't neighborhood watches pretty much all unofficial? People in the neighborhood watch don't have to interview or pass a background check.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Holy crap, man! That wasn't the question. Would it be okay to follow him and ask him what he was doing if he was peering in windows and checking car doors?

Not if you have to shoot him. If you're able to deal with the situation appropriately, then sure. If not, call the cops and let the professionals handle it.

I have no problem with Zimmerman calling the cops. I have no problem with Zimmerman following him (in his car) to see where he is going until the cops arrive. What I have a problem with, is Zimmerman approaching him if his only way to defend himself is to blow the kid's brains out. If you're fit and can handle yourself, fine. If you get your *** kicked, you gave it a great effort and hopefully the cops get there before too long.

And if you want to be a neighborhood watch, and confront people that you don't know, then you had better be able to defend yourself without taking their life. Either buy a tazer, buy some pepper spray, hit the gym, bring a friend, or stay in the car.

Once you approach someone, they have every right to defend themselves. And if they kick your ***, that doesn't give you the right to kill them.

I understand the point you are making here. Zimmerman thought the kid was doing something wrong so he approached him. Well the kid is the one who should be claiming the "stand your ground" defense in a situation like that. The kid was the one being followed by some strange guy with no badge.

You can't claim "self defense" if you were the instigator, you were the one who had a car and could have left, your life was never in danger, and as it turns out the kid was not even doing anything wrong anyway.

Starting a fight, and then getting beat up is not a reason to kill someone.

Let me ask you a question. If the situation went down almost the exact same (Zimmerman following him, chasing him, etc) but the kid pulled out a gun and killed Zimmerman (who was unarmed), would that be justified to you? I personally don't think there would be any question about it. And if that's the case, it's pretty hard to say Zimmerman was just defending himself simply because he was the one that had the gun.

You can't be the aggressor and claim self defense. Zimmerman was the predator here, not the prey.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Aren't neighborhood watches pretty much all unofficial? People in the neighborhood watch don't have to interview or pass a background check.

No, it's an official organization. They have meetings, training, guidelines they have to follow, and they regularly meet with police.

 

[Scat]

I fail to see how that matters since one person - without a weapon - was killed with a gun. These are the facts on the case. You don't even have to throw conspiracy around or racism accusations. I totally fail to see how the minutiae mentioned above has any bearing on all of this considering everything.

It really doesn't matter in this case. I was just curious at what point you are legally able to physically assault someone. Did anything which Zimmerman did that night justify him being physically assaulted? Had Zimmerman been following Trayvon around, verbally harassing him without physically assaulting him was Trayvon physically attacking Zimmerman legal? Had Zimmerman not shot Trayvon would Trayvon be facing assault charges? I'm sure everyone would agree that would be a preferable outcome compared to his death.

 

[Scat]

Once you approach someone, they have every right to defend themselves. And if they kick your ***, that doesn't give you the right to kill them.

You need to define what you mean by approach. If I walk up to you and simply ask you who you are and what are you doing here, is that grounds to physically assault me? And if you physically assault me first do I not have a right to protect myself? And if I'm getting my head bashed against the ground I can't now protect myself in any manner possible including shooting you? Having your head bashed in can be just as deadly as getting shot.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

No, it's an official organization. They have meetings, training, guidelines they have to follow, and they regularly meet with police.

Except he wasn't a neighborhood watchman so it's moot.

 

[SaltyDawg]

It really doesn't matter in this case. I was just curious at what point you are legally able to physically assault someone. Did anything which Zimmerman did that night justify him being physically assaulted? Had Zimmerman been following Trayvon around, verbally harassing him without physically assaulting him was Trayvon physically attacking Zimmerman legal? Had Zimmerman not shot Trayvon would Trayvon be facing assault charges? I'm sure everyone would agree that would be a preferable outcome compared to his death.

The girlfriend said she heard Zimmerman attack the kid at which point he dropped the phone and it went dead. That is the only "witness" as to how this started.

The fact that we do know is Zimmerman got out of his car and approached the kid, who had been walking fast and eventually running to get away. And the lady who made the phone call to 911 that recorded the screaming and shot says she is positive the screaming for help was the kid.

So I don't think he'd be facing assault charges if he were still alive. There's a good chance Zimmerman would be facing assault charges though. And it wouldn't be his first time.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Except he wasn't a neighborhood watchman so it's moot.

Yep. Totally agreed. Was just answering his question.

If he had been a neighborhood watchman, this probably would not have happened.

 

[Hayward Supremacist]

Oh yeah, and we all just imagined the O.J. Simpson thing.

You can't compare a famous athlete and actor to some random thug who commits the everyday murder in the hood. Of course the media is going to make a big deal about a celebrity.

I think this would've been an excellent time for the President to stand up and put an end to the stereotyping ********; instead he piled on.

Good point. And per the quote below, it's nice to see that not all black people feel the same about it.

The national attention from perennial leaders of the black community, Sharpton and Rev Jesse Jackson is not welcome, according to C.L. Bryant, the former head of the NAACP in Garland, Texas.
'His family should be outraged at the fact that they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,' the conservative pastor told the Daily Caller.


Read more: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...times-caught-burglary-tool.html#ixzz1qMxrY7XB

Another victim neo-con complaining about how the world is?

Neocon? You think I support American troops dying to fight wars for other countries, namely Israel, who is too damn cheap to pay for their own war so they try to force America into financing it? Hahahaha. Neocon to me is just code word for "Big Government Republican."


And Scat, keep up the good work in this topic.

 

[Scat]

The fact that we do know is Zimmerman got out of his car and approached the kid, who had been walking fast and eventually running to get away. And the lady who made the phone call to 911 that recorded the screaming and shot says she is positive the screaming for help was the kid.

The lady that called 911 didn't even see the confrontation. She was hiding in her house. The witness that did see it said that it was Zimmerman who was screaming for help.

 

[TroutBum]

How has it not been mentioned that "Trayvon" might just be the stupidest name ever invented? Both parents should be smacked upside the head.

 

[SaltyDawg]

The lady that called 911 didn't even see the confrontation. She was hiding in her house. The witness that did see it said that it was Zimmerman who was screaming for help.

The guy that saw it has no proof that he actually saw anything. For all we know he's just a friend of Zimmerman's who is trying to cover for him. The lady who says it was the kid screaming was on the phone with 911 while it happened and it can be heard clearly on that call recording.

Given that she was close enough to it that it got clearly recorded in her phone call, I'd say she's a more credible witness than some guy who claims to have seen it but can't prove it. By the way, the guy who claims to have seen it also claims he was hiding in his house, so I don't understand what makes him so much more credible than the lady.