Bold Trade Idea
- Thread starter LoPo
- Start date
MDAV28
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Give him credit. He's persistent. I don't think I've ever seen somebody get proven wrong so many times and still think they have an argument.
karl malone
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Gotta give OP credit for persistence but unless you honestly believe swapping Millsap for Favors makes us a legitimate championship contender next year, which I don't see how that argument can possibly be made, this should be the end of the conversation.
Nobody is untouchable but the only way I'm trading a core player such as Favors is if it brings in a potential star or as part of a bigger package that brings back an established star that instantly turns us into legitimate contenders.
This! The issue isn't that Favors is all high and mighty. But rather who you suggested trading him for. Why would we trade for someone older who is just a tad bit better on offense? How does that = more wins? If you are going to trade him, trade him for something of better value that guarantees more wins for us. Atlanta does that trade in a heartbeat cause they don't lose much scoring, get a better contract and a younger player. It makes no sense for the Jazz.
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fishonjazz
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Joe Bagadonuts
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The more disastrous this thread gets the harder it is to look away from. LoPo ought to post this same idea on an Atlanta message board. It would be laughed at there because they'd say there's no way Utah does that trade. If the Jazz made the offer Atlanta pulls the trigger in a heartbeat. Fortunately there's a 0% chance DL would ever even float the idea.
LoPo
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This thread is pretty crazy. I admit that. I just ask this one final question. Do you watch playoff basketball or do you watch Netflix when our season ends in May each year?
Millsap for Favors is about the playoffs. Favors and Gobert would rarely share the floor in the playoffs. They would be an offensive and defensive liabilty playing together.
Spurs played a ton of season ball with Kawhi, LA and Duncan on the court. In playoffs, they couldn't maintain. It's because the playoffs are different. Matchup issues get exposed.
Playoff PF and C's are guys like Kawhi, Draymond, LBJ, Iggy, Jae Crowder, Demarre Carroll and other smaller guys who would run circles around our bigs. With Favors and Gobert, we would lack the spacing on offense and speed on defense.
If Gobert is more important to our future than Favors, then we have to understand this glaring issue come playoff time. We don't have the wing play to support this post pair. Millsap helps with more matchups. That's what this is about.
For the next 2 years, Millsap helps us in the playoffs more than Favors. And in 2 years, Lyles is groomed to be our PF next to Gobert
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Millsap for Favors is about the playoffs. Favors and Gobert would rarely share the floor in the playoffs. They would be an offensive and defensive liabilty playing together.
Spurs played a ton of season ball with Kawhi, LA and Duncan on the court. In playoffs, they couldn't maintain. It's because the playoffs are different. Matchup issues get exposed.
Playoff PF and C's are guys like Kawhi, Draymond, LBJ, Iggy, Jae Crowder, Demarre Carroll and other smaller guys who would run circles around our bigs. With Favors and Gobert, we would lack the spacing on offense and speed on defense.
If Gobert is more important to our future than Favors, then we have to understand this glaring issue come playoff time. We don't have the wing play to support this post pair. Millsap helps with more matchups. That's what this is about.
For the next 2 years, Millsap helps us in the playoffs more than Favors. And in 2 years, Lyles is groomed to be our PF next to Gobert
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fishonjazz
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Yes. And when I watch Atlanta in the playoffs I'm not impressed by what I see from millsap.
In all three seasons in the playoffs with atl millsap shot 39%, 40%, and 43% from the field. 33%, 30%, and 24%! from the three point line.
His efg% are 44%, 44%, 46%
That is not good efficiency. (His total points and rebounding are pretty good though. Just not at all efficient)
I do remember a very young favors looking great against a still good tim duncan in the playoffs though.
In favors only playoff appearance, as a 20 year old against the world champion spurs and Tim Duncan he averaged 14.6 points and 11.8 rebounds and 2 blocks per 36. (He played 29 minutes per game)
Not too shabby. (His efficiency was not great though. 41% from the field)
In that same series against the same spurs team millsap averaged 11.4 rebounds per game per 36 (less than favors) and 12.4 points per game per 36 (Also less than favors) (He played 34 minutes per game that series). Millsap shot 37% from the field (worse than favors) and like favors, didn't attempt any threes.
Millsap averaged 0.5 assists per game per 36 (less than favors at 0.6)
The only thing millsap did better was average 2.6 blocks per game per 36. (Favors averaged 1.9)
Millsap was 26 years old (remember that favors was only 20 years old)
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LoPo
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Another good example of how Gobert and Favors might be a questionable fit: DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffen.
The Clippers have had the best true PG from the last 5 years. They also have one of the best spot up shooters in the game to help spread the floor in Reddick. However, DJordan and Griffen have accomplished nothing. It's because they don't spread the floor.
In many ways, this is a perfect comparison. Jordan is probably a better rebounder and finisher than Gobert but I think Gobert is a better lane/rim protector. Neither can create offense. Griffen is a better finisher and Favors a better defender, but they are very comparable in terms of strengths and weaknesses.
In the playoffs, the Clippers don't contend. They spend so much money on thwir post that can't do the things to counter smaller more aggressive lineups. They don't have the money to add needed wings and they are just good enough to miss out on needed draft picks.
Almost every GM in the league would take Griffen and DJordan over Favors and Gobert. And they have the best facilitating PG in the game. And they go nowhere every single year.
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The Clippers have had the best true PG from the last 5 years. They also have one of the best spot up shooters in the game to help spread the floor in Reddick. However, DJordan and Griffen have accomplished nothing. It's because they don't spread the floor.
In many ways, this is a perfect comparison. Jordan is probably a better rebounder and finisher than Gobert but I think Gobert is a better lane/rim protector. Neither can create offense. Griffen is a better finisher and Favors a better defender, but they are very comparable in terms of strengths and weaknesses.
In the playoffs, the Clippers don't contend. They spend so much money on thwir post that can't do the things to counter smaller more aggressive lineups. They don't have the money to add needed wings and they are just good enough to miss out on needed draft picks.
Almost every GM in the league would take Griffen and DJordan over Favors and Gobert. And they have the best facilitating PG in the game. And they go nowhere every single year.
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Good points.
But what does that have to do with Millsap? You honestly believe trading Favors for Milsap equals contending?
fishonjazz
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[MENTION=4667]LoPo[/MENTION]
And totally changing your argument again. Oh wait, you already did. Now it's about the clippers ace what they do or don't do.
I look forward to you moving the goalposts again (making excuses for why you are wrong again)
And totally changing your argument again. Oh wait, you already did. Now it's about the clippers ace what they do or don't do.
Joe Bagadonuts
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fishonjazz
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Bump
Completely false.
The Clippers had the best offensive rating in the NBA in 2014 AND 2015. Their offensive rating in the second round of the 2015 playoffs (where they lost) was 110 - which is fantastic. In the 2014 playoffs second round (where they lost), their offensive rating was a blistering 112.
Inability to spread the floor is not why they lost - their offense was fantastic all season and in the playoff series' they lost. They lost because their defense was always well below league average.
I now patiently await the moving of the goal posts yet again.
Hahaha
akirac73
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I think having CP3 and Blake Griffin injured had more to do with the Clippers losing to Portland in the playoffs tbh.
Yeah, I was talking about 2014 and 2015. I didn't bring up 2016 for that exact reason. Seemed silly to judge the clippers playoff performance this year.
Jazz4ever
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Millsap is not a true stretch PF, nor can he guard out on the perimeter better than Favors. We watched him for what 7 years here perhaps you did not.
If you think Favors/Gobert can't work long term, there is an argument to be had there, but there are better, younger solutions that could be had for a prize like Favors.
LoPo
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I'm sorry, the Clippers are contenders. You're right because the stats say they are awesome. The stats also said Zach Randolph was a beast. He wasn't a beast when it mattered.
And you're going to,bring up Favors against Duncan when Favors got a ton of mop up duty minutes when we were getting crushed? Millsap played against starters.
By you standards, Mo Speights is amazing because he hit a couple 3's in mop up duty against the Cavs. "He hit 2 three pointers per game and his 36 min average would be 6." Manipulate the stats all you want. Favors has never played consistently with a chip on his shoulder like he has something to prove. If he did, maybe we would have a playoff sample size where he played against other team's starters and had real stats.
Millsap fits better next to Favors because Favors doesn't have range and cannot defend the perimeter as well or pass as well.
Ask every GM in the league and almost all,would take Millsap over Favors if we are talking about this season (the season we must perform or Hayward could leave).
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And you're going to,bring up Favors against Duncan when Favors got a ton of mop up duty minutes when we were getting crushed? Millsap played against starters.
By you standards, Mo Speights is amazing because he hit a couple 3's in mop up duty against the Cavs. "He hit 2 three pointers per game and his 36 min average would be 6." Manipulate the stats all you want. Favors has never played consistently with a chip on his shoulder like he has something to prove. If he did, maybe we would have a playoff sample size where he played against other team's starters and had real stats.
Millsap fits better next to Favors because Favors doesn't have range and cannot defend the perimeter as well or pass as well.
Ask every GM in the league and almost all,would take Millsap over Favors if we are talking about this season (the season we must perform or Hayward could leave).
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