Brian Thompson Killing

[Sardines]

Apple is a "lifestyle" brand, making high end products that still manage to be outrageously overpriced for what they deliver. But hey, the design is sleek and they have convinced you that you are lesser than if you don't own a $200+ pair of air pods. Similar performance can be obtained for less than half the price from other brands but then that would make your Apple ecosystem get thrown all out of whack.

United Healthcare sells health insurance.

They should not have similar profit margins. That would be ridiculous.

When United health care goes from 4.5% profit margin to 5.9% they do that by killing more people by denying them medical coverage.

When Apple goes from 40% profit margin to 46% they do that by putting "pro" after the name of their product and charging twice as much.

 

[Rubashov]

Apple is a "lifestyle" brand, making high end products that still manage to be outrageously overpriced for what they deliver. But hey, the design is sleek and they have convinced you that you are lesser than if you don't own a $200+ pair of air pods. Similar performance can be obtained for less than half the price from other brands but then that would make your Apple ecosystem get thrown all out of whack.

United Healthcare sells health insurance.

They should not have similar profit margins. That would be ridiculous.

When United health care goes from 4.5% profit margin to 5.9% they do that by killing more people by denying them medical coverage.

When Apple goes from 40% profit margin to 46% they do that by putting "pro" after the name of their product and charging twice as much.

taxman needs to take a flamethrower to apple.

 

[Rubashov]

I know I'm late on commenting on this, but I had a discussion with a co-worker over the holidays that prompted me to look into United Healthcare's financial information. My co-worker suggested that these healthcare providers were making outlandish profits and that it was one of the primary causes of the high cost of healthcare in our country. As a CPA, this kind of information intrigues me, so I looked into their audited financial statements (available online).

In 2023, United Healthcare collected $291 billion in premiums, and paid out $241 billion in claims. They also had $54 billion in operating expenditures (payroll mostly), and a variety of ancillary services and misc. expenses. Their profits totaled about $22 billion. Their profit margin was 5.9% (total profits divided by total revenues). This is comparable to a well run grocery story. Meanwhile, Apple's profit margin in 2024 was 46%.

While I understand the frustration of the US Healthcare system, and how expensive it is, it seems like misplaced outrage to hate on the insurance companies. They are administering an extremely high volume of medical claims (trillions) and making a modest return (comparatively) in the process. Are you frustrated that they deny claims? Understandable, but if they didn't, all of our premiums would skyrocket. Also, as with all insurance, some claims SHOULD be denied. I only want my insurer paying for valid claims that the insured party has a right to so that my premiums can stay reasonable. When someone is denied a valid claim, there is a legal process to dispute it (and of course I hope in those situations the insured party is made whole).

In the grand scheme of things, the insurance companies are not the problem. They are operating in an environment that our government has established (healthcare primarily provided by employers), and competing with other companies forcing modest margins. You want Medicare For All? Fine, but it doesn't exist now, so we need insurance companies. Total US healthcare spending in 2023 was $4.9 TRILLION. Total healthcare insurance company profits, ALL COMBINED, represent less than 1% of that spending.

Yes, their audited financial statements include all of that activity. I didn't just get this information from "the web". Nothing here is thick or obfuscated. These are audited financial statements that are filed with the SEC, which you can obtain from the SEC's website or United Healthcare's website. The affiliated organization/subsidiary activity is not intermingled with their "Premiums" revenue or "Claims" expenses. It is the ancillary activity I mentioned. However, the net revenue number I quoted includes all of that activity.

Their annual report lists Optum Health, Optum Insight, and Optum Rx as subsidiaries, which do provide healthcare services (direct patient services, healthcare IT services, pharmacy, etc.) However, all of that information is included in the numbers I quoted. In researching this, I realized that Brian Thompson was the CEO of only the UnitedHealthcare Insurance portion of the entity, he worked under the CEO of the United Healthcare Group (Andrew Witty). So he wasn't even at the top of the organization.

Of course $200 Tylenol is absurd, but remember that's what the hospital is charging, regardless of the insurer.

54 billion in payroll? 241 billion paid in premiums? Paid to who? Pricing decided by who? Sounds like a heap of ******** to me, shed loads of money is finding its way into peoples pockets and not into patient care. We manage to do it here for about half the money and have a universal system and even then I reckon we could do an even better job by culling a bunch of hospital executives.

 

[The Thriller]

Apple is a "lifestyle" brand, making high end products that still manage to be outrageously overpriced for what they deliver. But hey, the design is sleek and they have convinced you that you are lesser than if you don't own a $200+ pair of air pods. Similar performance can be obtained for less than half the price from other brands but then that would make your Apple ecosystem get thrown all out of whack.

United Healthcare sells health insurance.

They should not have similar profit margins. That would be ridiculous.

When United health care goes from 4.5% profit margin to 5.9% they do that by killing more people by denying them medical coverage.

When Apple goes from 40% profit margin to 46% they do that by putting "pro" after the name of their product and charging twice as much.

Which is why health care is treated as a right or a utility in literally every other industrialized country. The “free market” health care system we have now is a bad joke. Those who need health care the most, can’t afford it. And pre-ACA, weren’t insured by health insurance companies under the excuse of “pre-existing conditions.” Anyone else here old enough to remember those?

The free market is great when trying to decide which pair of earbuds you want or which brand of microwave popcorn to buy. It’s terrible for health care. When your loved one is sick, you’re not shopping around. And if your health care is tied to employment, you’re enslaved to your employer.

We have the dumbest most asinine health care delivery system in the industrialized world. And it’s a major triumph of the rich that they’ve directed America’s ire at minorities rather than the richest and most greedy CEOs in the world. But rather than American’s focusing on building a first rate single payer system, they’d rather bash cultural elites, librarians, and racial minorities.

EDIT: one positive of the Trump presidency will be reminding millions of Americans what our ****** health care system was like pre-ACA. As bad as it is today, it was far worse within my lifetime, back in 2008. I think a lot of Americans have forgotten pre-existing conditions and Medicaid expansion. Nothing is stopping Rs from repealing the ACA this term. As Steve Bannon once said, “this will be fun!” And boy, I hope it stings! Tax cuts for ceos, losing your health insurance for millions of others. MAGA!