Burks or Rush?
- Thread starter Hantlers
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framer
Well-Known Member
I get the feeling that unless Burks can develop into a bench sparkplug, then he will be moved as an asset. With two superior big men and a legit pnr point guard paired with a facilitator in Hayward, the Jazz need a deadly accurate 3 baller to round out that line up. Burks CAN hit the open 3, but it is not his strength. He is a slasher/scorer that can get to the line. I think the Jazz want his handle to get better so they can pair him with an undersized shooter off the bench. If he fits comfortably into that role this year, then I think he stays. If he cannot, I believe he gets moved for assets. Ultimately I don't think he is playing behind Rush as much as he is playing behind Hayward. Burks is an inferior Hayward.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
He was pretty effective in the limited minutes Ty paired him up with Foye. Corbin even said so.
framer
Well-Known Member
This is the exact same role that they had Hayward playing when he came off the bench. Again, I think, for the most part, Hayward and Burks are redundant with Hayward being the superior player. Burks is still young enough to do something about that though.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
So let's say you made two investments 1 for $1000 and another for $500. Later you discover you don't have the time to manage them both. Do you keep the one you spent more on or the one that that is turning a higher profit?
Wait.. we agree??
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
Lol. This comment is awesome. Clark is 6'3". Burks is 6'6". Clark has a 6'6" wingspan, Hayward a 6'7" wingspan, Burks 6'10". But somehow Clark is long and Hayward is long, but Burks is not. You're a gem, green.
Burks, when he got consistent PT last year, shot 48% 3pt in February, Rush is a 40% career 3pt shooter, Clark shot 46% last year in college and we have no clue what he can do in the NBA and Hayward is a career 40% 3pt shooter, but somehow they are good shooters and Burks is not.
green, if nothing else, you are indeed a funny little guy. Perhaps it's unintentional humor, but funny nonetheless.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
This.
A lot of people here have lost their minds.
Burks balled when he was in. He only didn't play because the coach is retarded. But some people can't make up their own mind, so they take Corbin's decision to bench Burks as the truth about Burks.
I hear a lot of people say Burks can't shoot and it couldn't be further from the truth. The guy is a really good shooter.
I guess a lot of people just don't watch the games but like to make stuff up.
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
Makes me wonder what the psychology is behind the reason so many people pay more attention to reputation than they do actual facts. Perhaps it's because in so many cases reputation fits their argument and if they go to the facts, their argument is immediately shut down and there is nothing to talk about. I don't know, but it definitely happens with Jazz fans and Burks.
I mention the 48% 3pt in February because that is when he finally got consistent minutes, a chance to get into a rhythm and because that is what matters. But even if we look at his entire season, including when Corbin jerked him around, didn't play him at all, then played him 7 minutes, and back to no playing - for the season he was a 36% 3pt shooter - that puts him in the company of - Harden, Lillard, Redick, Paul George, - better than... Teague, Bellini, JR Smith, Gary Neal, Ginobili,- and significantly better than... Jeremy Lin, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, Eric Gordon and Russell Westbrook.
FWIW, all the talk surrounding Ian Clark, including Ian himself, is that he's sized for a combo-guard role and will have to learn the point to survive in the NBA. He and everyone else at that level knows he's too small to play the 2.
Po Boy's Mo Williams.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Burks averaged a poor 0.91 PPP on spot-ups (league average is 0.98 PP) per Synergy Sports. His opposite number scored 0.99 PPP overall, including 1.03 as the pick and roll ball handler (league average = 0.79 PPP), 0.86 on isos (league average = 0.81 PPP), 1.03 on spot-ups and 1 off screens (league average = 0.89). Burks is a well below average spot-up shooter at his position (presumably, 2s shoot better than league average on spot-ups, making his shooting even worse), and a poor defender who gets out-muscled and buried on screens frequently. All the players you've listed outperform Burks (most of them by a considerable margin). The Jazz have better options for off-ball scoring and defense (Rush, maybe others).
While Burks hasn't performed THAT well statistically with the ball in his hands, he's been better than traditional off-ball guys. Burks, if he takes a step forward this season, might turn into a decent 6th man. He's ridiculously overrated on this board.
You should probably see a shrink about that; seems as though introspection hasn't worked.
Ellipse
Well-Known Member
By the end of last season, Burks showed he was the best backup pg on the team -- and I preferred him to Mo. I think he should be Burke's backup this year (aren't we suppose to be evaluating talent?) with his 30 mpg being equally split between pg and sg. (Lucas shouldn't leave the bench unless we have injuries or foul trouble.)
The Jazz are in a unique position in that they have young talent at every position, so we only need an 8-man (or 9-man) rotation to evaluate and grow our team. (I also think a young'uns-only rotation gives us the best chance of winning -- sorry, but I still want wins.) Whether Burks starts at the 2 or comes off the bench depends upon what works best for evaluating/developing Kanter and Favors.
All of our lineups and substitutions should be based upon what works best for Kanter and Favors, because their future contracts will either make or break this franchise for the next decade.
GVC
Well-Known Member
As a comparison, in 11/12 Rush scored 1.22 PPP on spot-ups and 1.12 PPP overall (1.07 on non-spot-ups). His opposite number scored a paltry 0.85 PPP overall. He also played the majority of his minutes at the 3. If he comes back anywhere near his 11/12 form, he's the obvious choice to start at the 3 for the Jazz (allowing Gordo to slide to the 2). There will plenty of minutes for Burks off the bench.
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
Are you trying to say that I didn't post facts? That I just posted reputation. GVC, I've known you a long time, I think you're smarter than that.
In your stats above, it might not be a bad idea to compare apples to apples. You're comparing him with guys who played consistent big minutes. What were Burks stats when he played consisted big minutes. He averaged 27 minutes in February. In regard to the stats you posted above, what were his numbers in the month Feb? I'll be interested in those numbers. TIA.
GVC
Well-Known Member
You posted stats in the most self-serving way possible (He is a prospect after all, and we all know how much SJF loves the younguns). Burks' body of work through 2 seasons isn't good. Confirmation bias is a bitch.
Don't have monthly numbers, and don't really see why they're relevant, unless you can provide some evidence that players' efficiency tends to go up when given more minutes/more responsibility. Burks' shooting in February (a stretch where he shot 23 3-pointers) was likely an aberration (unless he's just been incredibly unlucky for the rest of his pro and college career). Rush has shown that he can defend and score efficiently off the ball. Burks has been loads of style, little substance in his early career.
I don't hate Burks, and think it's entirely possible he turns into a decent rotation player. I think he's best suited for a 6th man role (a role that could still provide him with 20 - 30 minutes of PT every game). With Rush's ability to guard the 3, bringing Burks off the bench seems too obvious.
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