can one of the coaches on jazzfanz explain to me why the jazz defending the PnR as they are?

[Qman]

I recall the Jazz trying to play like Toronto did at the start of the season by blitz PnR ball handlers. But Kanter struggles to do. I am not sure if Gobert can either. Personally I think Gobert was dropping too low last night against Toronto.

 

[Stifle Tower]

THAT

while passing on hornaceck who is in the playoff hunt while being considered coy. and also his best player bledsoe is out more than half games. and has a les talented roster.


think horny could have been a 4th seed with

burke/whatever
burks/DMC/whoever
hayward/williams/whoever
millsap/kanter/evans and gobert
favors/kanter/evans and gobert.

BEING 4TH SEED WITH THAT TEAM would have been way better than this psuedo tanking.


the biggest blunder in jazz history

Think they could have ever been a contender with Millsap, Hayward and Favors as their "Big3?"

I think that was clearly a consideration...Jazz were in negotiations with Paul and DeMarre right up until the GS deal was made. In the end, Lindsey won out. The Jazz would sacrifice a year of winning in order to bring in a top-10 pick. And they will still have the financial ability to bring in a player of Millsap's caliber this summer with all their expirings coming off the books.

So yes, I do think the Jazz could be competing for a playoff spot, but no, I don't think the talent would be there with Millsap, Favors, Burke, Burks and Hayward to be 34-17 and be a 4th seed. Lindsey was ABSOLUTELY right to do what he did. Add a top-10 pick to the roster, throw in GS' pick and Neto, then go out and add a starting-caliber FA. And THAT roster just might be capable of rising from the ashes like a Phoenix (or Portland).

 

[default]

Because Favors is our only big man that plays decent pick and roll defense and he has been out.

 

[fishonjazz]

I know that you can not always switch on pick n rolls (due to mismatches that would occur) but i think that anytime there is a chance to switch, then you should.

For instance: last night rushs man (Ross i believe) set a screen for burks man (derozan) and derozan got to the paint as burks tried to fight through the screen and rush did nothing.
In situations like that, i think the jazz should always switch.

Also, and its just my philosophy, I would coach guys to go under screens most of the time..... exception being when some is really feeling it or when it a great shooter like curry.
I would give teams long 2's and hope they miss, rather than fight over the screen and have the ball handler and the pick man with room to move toward the hoop.

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

Yeah, if they're going against the 4, then the 5 can still help, so flashing or hedging seems like the best option in that case.

Flashing the 5 with a stretch 4 as your only paint guy isn't a great philosophy. Any time the big fails in the flash/hedge and there's going to be an easy scoring opportunity.

Agreed.

But then there's the issue of how far back the paint guy should be. Last night he was way too far back.

 

[Ben10]

I'll Take a stab at this:

1st there are 2 ways to play pick and roll defense from the guard end. You go under the screen or you fight through. (part of the problem here is a coaching thing.) If you are playing a Steph Curry then you have to fight through the screen because of his shooting ability. But if you are playing a Kendell Marshall, Derrick Rose player you should be going under the screen IMO as both are not very consistent shooters. The Jazz chose to fight through all PG screens. I think that is a mistake and is the reason you saw Marshall go off on us in the Assist Cat. #2 problem with the guards are they do a poor job of over playing the ball handler on the screen side in order to be able to get that space need to fight though. I know that the game plan is to force base line so why we are always trailing going into a middle of the floor screen is crazy to me. This is a player problem. They are not doing the right things to fight through the screen and once they are picked they seem to be out of the play or trying to follow there man. (not helping anyone there). So some of the blame goes to the guards.

The next part is who is playing at the time. We all know that Favs is a good P&R defender when it comes to stopping the ball and then getting back. The problem is who Corbin has playing with Favs on the front line right now. Marv is not a rim protector. So when they put Favs in the P&R he is forced to not attack the ball handler because if the guard gets by him it is an easy basket for that guard or the big that Favs was guarding because there really is no help at the rim even if the Jazz rotate correctly. When Enis is on the floor there normally is a rim protector in Evans but Kanter is just unable to contain the guard up front enough for Evans to play 2-1 when helping. By Corbin playing Blue coverage all the time it allows both Favs and Kanter to stay near enough to the rim to not give up the uncontested lay up but it is almost impossible to have a good rotation out of this defense. You have almost every one droping to stop the ball because the big is back peddling and cant catch up to the roll man.

All in all the Jazz shouldn't be in this situation except in a strait on P&R any way. If they are forcing to the base line it takes away most of this problem. The guards need to do a better job of pushing the ball handler to a side then getting on the top side if a screen is coming. The bigs need to know how far to hedge down and they have to at least delay the ball in order to give the rotations a chance.

I like Ty. but is has been obvious to me that he is not a defensive minded type. His strategy seems to be fight what the other coach does with offensive ajustments instead of matching up. Marv playing against Giffin the other night was to make Griffen guard a shooter. But we all know that defensively that matchup is a huge disadvantage for the Jazz.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Agreed.

But then there's the issue of how far back the paint guy should be. Last night he was way too far back.

I disagree when it comes to Gobert. Remember that the long two is the least efficient shot out there and defenses should encourage teams to shoot it. The reason you generally don't want the big to dive back to the paint is that the ball handler gets a head of steam to make a move around or jump over the big to get an easy basket. Gobert is just too long for that and can still affect passing lanes and the rolling big because he has pretty good timing and instincts. Kanter has neither at this point. In years previous, Kanter was good at hedging and is decently quick laterally to string out the ball handler so the small can recover. However, a good PG can eventually break this down and with Kanter as the 5, there isn't enough decent help to counter that, so you pretty much have to drop him back. He ends up in no man's land, though, and doesn't help on the ball handler, his roll man or a secondary cutter to be of much use currently.

That currently leaves the Jazz either porous defensively with a stretch 4, or compacted offensively when Kanter is with another big. Hard solution.

 

[franklin]

I know that you can not always switch on pick n rolls (due to mismatches that would occur) but i think that anytime there is a chance to switch, then you should.

For instance: last night rushs man (Ross i believe) set a screen for burks man (derozan) and derozan got to the paint as burks tried to fight through the screen and rush did nothing.
In situations like that, i think the jazz should always switch.

Also, and its just my philosophy, I would coach guys to go under screens most of the time..... exception being when some is really feeling it or when it a great shooter like curry.
I would give teams long 2's and hope they miss, rather than fight over the screen and have the ball handler and the pick man with room to move toward the hoop.

You have a new opinion on pnr on the daily. It'll be interesting to watch you refine this young switching philosophy to match Alec's game.

 

[franklin]

Yeah, if they're going against the 4, then the 5 can still help, so flashing or hedging seems like the best option in that case.

Flashing the 5 with a stretch 4 as your only paint guy isn't a great philosophy. Any time the big fails in the flash/hedge and there's going to be an easy scoring opportunity.

It's not ALL about the help d. Small 4s are quicker footed, which is what you need to flash -- i.e. Coach Police now dumps Duncan 100% of the time because Timmy is so damn slow nowadays. Duncan is a long **** and used to be able to make up some ground a la Rudy Gibbas.

 

[fishonjazz]

You have a new opinion on pnr on the daily. It'll be interesting to watch you refine this young switching philosophy to match Alec's game.

Switching is always the best option if possible.
I have always preferred going under screens 90 percent of the time. (The exceptions being guys like curry, klay, ray allen ect.)

I hate the big hedging out beyond the 3 point.

I have felt this way about all of that for a long long time (before burks played for the jazz.... i have been consistent in these philosophies.

and you (frank) have done a great job at consistently being a troll!

Keep up the good work doe

 

[franklin]

I disagree when it comes to Gobert. Remember that the long two is the least efficient shot out there and defenses should encourage teams to shoot it. The reason you generally don't want the big to dive back to the paint is that the ball handler gets a head of steam to make a move around or jump over the big to get an easy basket. Gobert is just too long for that and can still affect passing lanes and the rolling big because he has pretty good timing and instincts. Kanter has neither at this point. In years previous, Kanter was good at hedging and is decently quick laterally to string out the ball handler so the small can recover. However, a good PG can eventually break this down and with Kanter as the 5, there isn't enough decent help to counter that, so you pretty much have to drop him back. He ends up in no man's land, though, and doesn't help on the ball handler, his roll man or a secondary cutter to be of much use currently.

That currently leaves the Jazz either porous defensively with a stretch 4, or compacted offensively when Kanter is with another big. Hard solution.

The problem is, IMO, Corbin dumping Favors down to the net when a guy like Parker picks middle, deep inside the three. Giving up that floater isn't like giving up a long two on the right side. Gobert might be able to alter shots merely by taking presence up to the moon, but he must be closer to the restricted area arc, and there's no reason I can come up with not to be right there when they go paint side on our pnr dump defense.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

The problem is, IMO, Corbin dumping Favors down to the net when a guy like Parker picks middle, deep inside the three. Giving up that floater isn't like giving up a long two on the right side. Gobert might be able to alter shots merely by taking presence up to the moon, but he must be closer to the restricted area arc, and there's no reason I can come up with not to be right there when they go paint side on our pnr dump defense.

Well, I think Favors can be good enough to do whatever he wants on the pick save switching and be successful at it. I agree about the floaters and had them in mind when I posted. With Gobert, they have to be freakishly high just to get over him. I think he had 2 or 3 made over him in the Toronto game while destroying one of Vasquez' attempts. He'll have to come out more for someone like Parker and adjust if he's making the mid range, but not the point where open layups and threes are occurring.

 

[LogGrad98]

I recall the Jazz trying to play like Toronto did at the start of the season by blitz PnR ball handlers. But Kanter struggles to do. I am not sure if Gobert can either. Personally I think Gobert was dropping too low last night against Toronto.

Gobert is a shot blocker. Absent any coaching he will gravitate to what comes naturally, protecting the rim.