Can the Dante Exum Experiment Please End

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Is he healthy? Color me unconvinced.

 

[fishonjazz]

Is he healthy? Color me unconvinced.

He is hurt, too young, too inexperienced, has too good of players playing his position, missed too much time, is in the wrong system, is playing the wrong role, coach doesn't like him, is having a hard time adapting to American culture.... I think that explains all his struggles. Can't have anything to do with his actual ability and talent because he is obviously a hall of fame type talent. That length! That speed!

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

He is hurt, too young, too inexperienced, has too good of players playing his position, missed too much time, is in the wrong system, is playing the wrong role, coach doesn't like him, is having a hard time adapting to American culture.... I think that explains all his struggles. Can't have anything to do with his actual ability and talent because he is obviously a hall of fame type talent. That length! That speed!

*shrug, I'm also not convinced that injuries equate to "weak excuses". Sure, it's is a popular myth preached door-to-door like the ****ing Gospel by eager missionaries. Like any religion, it feeds the ego and meets out punishment for "sins". But the reality is that injuries are just facts of the game.

If Exum has been playing through an inflamed knee, the Nateboz "toughness" squad should be worshipping prostrate at his shrine. I'm sensing a double standard here.

 

[fishonjazz]

*shrug, I'm also not convinced that injuries equate to "weak excuses". Sure, it's is a popular myth preached door-to-door like the ****ing Gospel by eager missionaries. Like any religion, it feeds the ego and meets out punishment for "sins". But the reality is that injuries are just facts of the game.

If Exum has been playing through an inflamed knee, the Nateboz "toughness" squad should be worshipping prostrate at his shrine. I'm sensing a double standard here.

Has he been hurt through his whole career?

Do other players not perform well when they play through minor things? Hayward seems to be doing pretty good with a jacked up finger imo.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Do other players not perform well when they play through minor things? Hayward seems to be doing pretty good with a jacked up finger imo.

Were there zero complaints about Gobert last year post knee injury?

 

[fishonjazz]

Were there zero complaints about Gobert last year post knee injury?

I guess I just don't remember all the dnp's that Gobert got when he was available to play though.
Can't remember a scrub 2nd rounder taking his minutes. Odd.
Also, I asked if exum has been hurt his entire career or something cause this "injured" exum looks eerily similar to the exum I have always seen.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

I guess I just don't remember all the dnp's that Gobert got when he was available to play though.
Can't remember a scrub 2nd rounder taking his minutes. Odd.
Also, I asked if exum has been hurt his entire career or something cause this "injured" exum looks eerily similar to the exum I have always seen.

You mean his rookie year when he was 18? Yeah.

It'll be fun to read all the tantalizing trade talk.

 

[fishonjazz]

You mean his rookie year when he was 18? Yeah.

It'll be fun to read all the tantalizing trade talk.

I already said he is too young. That has been covered.
Right now he is simply too injured.

It will be fun to read the excuses if he plays poorly in the future.

 

[JAZZGASM]

uh, either you simply don't get it or you are not paying attention.

Isaiah Thomas' PER his rookie year was 17.
Kemba Walker's PER was 15
Kyle Lowry's PER was 14 his first full season (18 in 10 games his rookie year)
Jeff Teague's PER was 11
Schroder's PER was more Exum like at 6, not playing a full year, but his first full year, at age 21 his PER was 16.

Dante Exum's PER his rookie year was 6, and at age 21, it is sitting at 8.

Let's be clear - Nobody (or very few) are saying he can't or won't ever be good. But your comparisons above fall flat. Exum simply has a steeper development curve than the players you mentioned. From league low type production at age 19 and again at 21, it's incredibly rare that guys who don't produce ever become good players, even more rare - great players.

it's not impossible, Exum is his own guy, has his own skill set, his own work ethic, so you can't judge him by what other guys have done, but history shows us it is unlikely.

It is comparing apples to oranges. There really isn't good historical data for an inexperienced player like Exum. Every player but Schroder had college ball experience and came into the league around age 21 or older. (Lowery was a few months shy of 21 and Thomas was almost 23). Schroder played professionally in Germany for two years before coming to the NBA. So yes, these players all had higher PER, but they also had a lot more experience coming in. Dante essentially played high school, took a year off outside of the Nike Hoop Summit, and was drafted by the Jazz. So prior to this season, and inexperienced player sat out two of three years and suffered a knee injury.

Dante had a slow start his rookie year, but slowly improved month to month. He played great D, especially for a rookie, and at the end of the season, his offense started to look better as he got more aggressive. He is very tentative, probably due to age and experience. Add a knee injury to an already tentative player, and it is going to take some time to get confidence back.

The other problem with PER is it largely tracks offensive efficiency, and does not give credit for defense other than blocks and steals. Clearly this does not favor Exum at this stage compared to the above players. Dante's Defense has been good IMO. His offense is what is struggling. It looks like the coaches had him change his shot this year. It looks very mechanical (worse than before IMO). He is probably overthinking every time he shoots.

So he may not pan out, but based on his experience and the knee injury, it is still way to early to tell. I still think he will turn into a good player.

 

[fishonjazz]

You mean his rookie year when he was 18? Yeah.

It'll be fun to read all the tantalizing trade talk.

Also, just for accuracy sake, he never played a game in the nba as an 18 year old. He was 19 during his rookie year.

 

[silesian]

Lol. Simmer down. Weve had barely any top 5 picks in our history and were/are still in search of a true superstar. Thats where you find them and if we whiffed twice then thats frustrating.

And there were a ton of potential superstars on the board when we drafted Enes and Dante. Here is a complete list: (1) Kawhi (2)...... Doh!

By the way, Steph was 7, Kawhi was 14, Lillard was 6, Gasol was 48, Dirk was 9, Pierce was 10

 

[jope]

And there were a ton of potential superstars on the board when we drafted Enes and Dante. Here is a complete list: (1) Kawhi (2)...... Doh!

By the way, Steph was 7, Kawhi was 14, Lillard was 6, Gasol was 48, Dirk was 9, Pierce was 10

Plenty of players available of at least more value than kendrick Perkins (enea kanter), and whatever pennies people want to get for dante. Not to mention the trey burke loss of value.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

I already said he is too young. That has been covered.
Right now he is simply too injured.

It will be fun to read the excuses if he plays poorly in the future.

There is no excuse for healthy players, so please don't infer that I am offering any. I am perfectly fine with playing Exum as 3rd PG if he can't outperform players like Mack and Neto, so don't mistake me for an Exum homer, or some anti-Snyder propagandist.

What you and others are really trying to imply is that you don't accept injuries as factual phenomena unless they can be played through, and that performance must be satisfactory. All else is portrayed as unacceptable "softness". I'm sorry, but I can't even qualify that as any sort of passable rationale.

I think Jazzgazm gets it right above.

 

[LoPo]

But we didn't. If you think he is a player of value then your definition of value is way different than most people.
He gets dnp's when hill is healthy cause he can't get minutes over mack. I doubt we could get much of anything for him in a trade.
Could he have some value in the future? Sure. Right now though? Come on.

Also, you expect to have some value from a #5 pick.

I expect more from a #5 pick, but I'm not as disppointed enough to cry and want to dump him. Mack was a 4 year college starter on a contender and has years of NBA experience. He's a solid pro.

You know what? Exum is going to be a solid pro who is bigger and faster than most guys at his position. Appreciate that. Its not like we drafted Greg Oden, Robert Swift, Burke or many other busts through the years. The kid will be fine.

If you want to cry about Burks who isn't even playing and went before Leonard. Considering salary and what we passed on, that's worth the complaints. Exum was BPA at that point in the draft.

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[fishonjazz]

I expect more from a #5 pick, but I'm not as disppointed enough to cry and want to dump him. Mack was a 4 year college starter on a contender and has years of NBA experience. He's a solid pro.

You know what? Exum is going to be a solid pro who is bigger and faster than most guys at his position. Appreciate that. Its not like we drafted Greg Oden, Robert Swift, Burke or many other busts through the years. The kid will be fine.

If you want to cry about Burks who isn't even playing and went before Leonard. Considering salary and what we passed on, that's worth the complaints. Exum was BPA at that point in the draft.

Sent from my VS980 4G using JazzFanz mobile app

Lol. I'm actually one of the people who has always been saying that I think that exum should be playing ahead of mack. Also have said multiple times this season that he has impressed me with his improved aggressiveness driving at the hoop.
It would be dumb to trade him while he has no value.

We are just discussing his play so far in his career. I think it has been pretty poor overall.

 

[fishonjazz]

What you and others are really trying to imply is that you don't accept injuries as factual phenomena unless they can be played through, and that performance must be satisfactory.

You are WAY off on this one.
I'm one of the people who is always making excuses for why the jazz have not been as good as I think they should be. Using the injuries as the excuse.

Injuries are a very legit excuse for poor play. I just don't think that injuries are the reason for exum poor play.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

He is hurt, too young, too inexperienced, has too good of players playing his position, missed too much time, is in the wrong system, is playing the wrong role, coach doesn't like him, is having a hard time adapting to American culture.... I think that explains all his struggles. Can't have anything to do with his actual ability and talent because he is obviously a hall of fame type talent. That length! That speed!

Perhaps I misread you here. Apologies.

 

[fishonjazz]

Perhaps I misread you here. Apologies.

No worries.
I want him to do well. I think he should get playing time over mack. I thought he has been better this year than his rookie year. I don't only see negatives with exum. But if asked what I think of his career so far then I would say that it has been poor and I understand that he is young and hasn't been in an ideal situation..... but it is what it is.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

That sounds pretty fair.

Unfortunately, I think matters of personnel may relegate him to the bench for a few seasons. Perhaps he will be able to put it all together by his contract year.

 

[Nate505]

I'm still not too worried about him. He's made a major jump forward in being able to get to the bucket. I imagine finishing will just happen in time.