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Can the Emmanuel Mudiay and Jeff Green experiments please end.

nothing better than supporters thinking mudiay is not costing the jazz right now,
what has he done besides make so many mistakes and not get dragged.
I want exum gone too, just doesn't fit this system
 
Wineo said:
nothing better than supporters thinking mudiay is not costing the jazz right now,
what has he done besides make so many mistakes and not get dragged.
I want exum gone too, just doesn't fit this system
Click to expand...
Mudiay has been a positive for the team in 9 out of 12 games. That's simply a fact.

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fishonjazz said:
Mudiay has been a positive for the team in 9 out of 12 games. That's simply a fact.
Click to expand...
It's also a fact that in his most +ve games (I'm assuming you're basing this on +/-), he totalled 11 assists, only 3 turnovers and a minimum +/- of +8. In his worst five games, he almost exactly flipped these stats, having 4 assists and 11 turnovers, with his +/-ranging from +3 to -24 (the last an outlier). The conclusion I draw from this is that he's a better player when he passes more (as long as it's to his team-mates!) - which is exactly what we all want.

As an aside, he is averaging 1 more TO and one more foul per 36 this year compared to last year, so if he could address this by eliminating his regular charging foul from his game, that would be great.

And lastly - he's shooting a massive 12% more than this career average this season. Let's hope that's sustainable, and he doesn't regress to the mean.
 
Wineo said:
nothing better than supporters thinking mudiay is not costing the jazz right now,
what has he done besides make so many mistakes and not get dragged.
I want exum gone too, just doesn't fit this system
Click to expand...

Vs the Pels, the jazz looked much better with him in than Conley. I’d agree with you if he was starting and playing 30 min a game, but he doesn’t, he comes in in spurts and playes 15-18 min a game and puts the ball in the basket.

He’s a gunner for this team, that’s his role. Every team needs a gunner, a guy that comes in off the bench cold and scores points. That puts incredible pressure on the other team because teams struggle to score with the same proficiency off the bench.

That’s what Mudiay gives this team. I was so happy when I learned of this signing. While people largely said he’d be fighting for scrap min, I knew he’d play an important role because he can score. Off the bench you can live with the types of mistakes he’s prone to make because benches across the nba are riddled with those same kind of mistakes players make, but Mudiay, unlike a majority of bench/role players, Mudiay can score in volume. And that is what you want from your bench. That’s why he’s a good fit.
 
Wineo said:
nothing better than supporters thinking mudiay is not costing the jazz right now,
what has he done besides make so many mistakes and not get dragged.
I want exum gone too, just doesn't fit this system
Click to expand...
Weather you want to believe this or not, but Mudiay is as important to this team as anyone not named Spida or Gobert, because he’s about the only bench player that can score and create his own shot when things aren’t going well.
 
Hitman said:
It's also a fact that in his most +ve games (I'm assuming you're basing this on +/-), he totalled 11 assists, only 3 turnovers and a minimum +/- of +8. In his worst five games, he almost exactly flipped these stats, having 4 assists and 11 turnovers, with his +/-ranging from +3 to -24 (the last an outlier). The conclusion I draw from this is that he's a better player when he passes more (as long as it's to his team-mates!) - which is exactly what we all want.

As an aside, he is averaging 1 more TO and one more foul per 36 this year compared to last year, so if he could address this by eliminating his regular charging foul from his game, that would be great.

And lastly - he's shooting a massive 12% more than this career average this season. Let's hope that's sustainable, and he doesn't regress to the mean.
Click to expand...

I actually want whoever has the best chance to score to be the one taking shots on offense. I DONT want him passing more. I want him to keep doing what he has been doing. He has been a positive in the vast majority of the games he has played for us and its not due to his passing, its due to his ability to put the ball in the hoop (something we struggle with) efficiently.


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fishonjazz said:
I actually want whoever has the best chance to score to be the one taking shots on offense. I DONT want him passing more. I want him to keep doing what he has been doing. He has been a positive in the vast majority of the games he has played for us and its not due to his passing, its due to his ability to put the ball in the hoop (something we struggle with) efficiently.


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Click to expand...
I will also say he’s looked good when he does pass, There were 4-5 times he drew in the defense and created open layups and long distant shots for his teammates vs the Pels the other night. He’s shown to me to be a willing passer when his opportunity has been taken away from him this year all be it him being a shoot first pg.

Again, if he were starting and playing 25-30+ min a game this would be more of a problem. Every time vs the Pels when Snyder took him out and put in Conley, I got nervous. To this point he’s proven to be more than just a positive signing. I’ll even go as far as saying this bench would be worse in the league by far without Mudiay. He’s been a mutha ****ing godsend to this bench. We should all be on our knees thanking god he took a minimum contract otherwise there is no one on this bench that can score or consistently get their own.
 
Hitman said:
It's also a fact that in his most +ve games (I'm assuming you're basing this on +/-), he totalled 11 assists, only 3 turnovers and a minimum +/- of +8. In his worst five games, he almost exactly flipped these stats, having 4 assists and 11 turnovers, with his +/-ranging from +3 to -24 (the last an outlier). The conclusion I draw from this is that he's a better player when he passes more (as long as it's to his team-mates!) - which is exactly what we all want.

As an aside, he is averaging 1 more TO and one more foul per 36 this year compared to last year, so if he could address this by eliminating his regular charging foul from his game, that would be great.

And lastly - he's shooting a massive 12% more than this career average this season. Let's hope that's sustainable, and he doesn't regress to the mean.
Click to expand...
I’ve never been a big believer that guys can turn into great passers... like they can improve but there is a ceiling... that said I believe the chances he becomes a more willing passer are greater than the chances that Exum can stay healthy and improve enough to help us.

Mudiay will frustrate us at times but overall I’m happy with what he’s given us... he’s the easiest player of the Green Exum group to bench which is what I was kind of advocating... that was more about trying to get Exum going. Not sure if Quin is being extra cautious with Dante or just doesn’t believe in him helping the team. We need at least one more solid rotation piece imo and Dante needs to be that or be the contract fodder that gets us that piece... can’t improve his trade value from the bench.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
I will also say he’s looked good when he does pass, There were 4-5 times he drew in the defense and created open layups and long distant shots for his teammates vs the Pels the other night. He’s shown to me to be a willing passer when his opportunity has been taken away from him this year all be it him being a shoot first pg.

Again, if he were starting and playing 25-30+ min a game this would be more of a problem. Every time vs the Pels when Snyder took him out and put in Conley, I got nervous. To this point he’s proven to be more than just a positive signing. I’ll even go as far as saying this bench would be worse in the league by far without Mudiay. He’s been a mutha ****ing godsend to this bench. We should all be on our knees thanking god he took a minimum contract otherwise there is no one on this bench that can score or consistently get their own.
Click to expand...

Not quite wiling you go that far but he’s been solid. He has shown the ability to pass... just needs to continue to be willing to do it. I wonder if he gets a little worried that Dante may take his minutes if he slumps (not that Dante would earn it but history and contract might give him the nod if Mudiay slips).

I really just wish we had a Neto or similar steady traditional backup to go along with the group... too many tough to fit parts.
 
The worst pass that Mudiay is throwing is when he gets too deep and up in the air before trying to kick it all the way out to the perimeter. The defense typically closes out in the corners, so Mudiay is throwing it back out to beyond the break, risking the worst possible turnover. It’d be great if he developed chemistry with a couple of cutters for some shorter passes and/or learned to Nash it a little.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Weather you want to believe this or not, but Mudiay is as important to this team as anyone not named Spida or Gobert, because he’s about the only bench player that can score and create his own shot when things aren’t going well.
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This guy has no idea. SMH
 
Mudiay a +5 tonight.
First half he wasnt so good cause he was passing too much which led to turnovers. Second half he decided to score the ball and single handedly brought us back from a big deficit to tie the game.


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NAOS said:
The worst pass that Mudiay is throwing is when he gets too deep and up in the air before trying to kick it all the way out to the perimeter. The defense typically closes out in the corners, so Mudiay is throwing it back out to beyond the break, risking the worst possible turnover. It’d be great if he developed chemistry with a couple of cutters for some shorter passes and/or learned to Nash it a little.
Click to expand...

Those are the nuclear turnovers... the oh **** I thought the weak side would open up turnover. Should just throw it to the corner... even if it is defended it sometimes gets knocked out of bounds instead of stolen. he had a rough start yesterday, but then played well. Putting him out there with Green and Niang (who is Leroy Jenkins' levels of aggressive right now) is not ideal. Honestly having a guy like Neto alongside him and using him more as a scoring wing and not a pg would be helpful.

Mudiay has consistently been positive in plus minus, so its tough to argue its not working at least a little. Not sure how Exum gets playing time.
 
Interesting little tidbit from the latest Tony Jones article on why Quin chose not to have a starter on the floor with the second unit tonight.

"Second, Snyder’s trying to develop Emmanuel Mudiay, trying to get him playing the right way, which is running the offense first instead of hunting his individual offense. So Snyder sent his second unit out without the lifeboat of a starter on the floor with it."
 
Jingled said:
Interesting little tidbit from the latest Tony Jones article on why Quin chose not to have a starter on the floor with the second unit tonight.

"Second, Snyder’s trying to develop Emmanuel Mudiay, trying to get him playing the right way, which is running the offense first instead of hunting his individual offense. So Snyder sent his second unit out without the lifeboat of a starter on the floor with it."
Click to expand...
Not working....... Dante played 4 minutes and played much better. Quin must be on something. When he put mudiay in the 3rd I thought wtf. Quin definitely has to be on drugs
 
Jingled said:
Interesting little tidbit from the latest Tony Jones article on why Quin chose not to have a starter on the floor with the second unit tonight.

"Second, Snyder’s trying to develop Emmanuel Mudiay, trying to get him playing the right way, which is running the offense first instead of hunting his individual offense. So Snyder sent his second unit out without the lifeboat of a starter on the floor with it."
Click to expand...
So Mudiay gets to play through his mistakes?
 
Hitman said:
So Mudiay gets to play through his mistakes?
Click to expand...
Apparently. Part of that equation is lacking other reliable options and going with a player that he thinks is less of a risk.

Not all mistakes are created equal. I know there are a lot of people here that don't want to hear it, but for all of Mudiay's warts, he is clearly and substantially better than Dante Exum.

That doesn't mean there isn't an argument that Dante should get a chance. But I trust Quin a lot more than delusional fans on message boards and a front-office desperate to rationalize their irrational loyalty to a #5 pick that they tanked to get.

At the end of the day, I want Exum to be an NBA player for a ton of reasons (including but not limited to that the ball doesn't stick in his hands like it does Mudiay), but this team can't be putting games on the line in the pursuit of that.
 
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