Can We Please Just Waive NWG?

[KqWIN]

You’ve drastically mischaracterized the features of the discussion you’ve had with HH and infection. This further reveals the extent of your injury. I hope you heal up and bring more of some of the good stuff you’ve got in your bag.

If you can just claim that I said the direct opposite of what I actually said, there is no point. Whatevs.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Ok. I guess we'll just ignore when you said I made all these bad assumptions, despite me saying the exact opposite over and over. Whatevs, I guess I'm just a fanboy. Remember that time you said DL was the greatest GM of all time? oh wait, you didn't say that. But whatevs....I'm just calling you a fanboy from now on. Who cares what you said or didn't say.

When I reply to you I'm not necessarily putting all the things I say on you directly. When I say some on here are DL fanboys in posts responding to you that is not a direct accusation. You are assuming that all 30 teams are passing on Shaq (bad assumption). You are assuming there is something we don't know... probably fair but that's why I said lets pause there... because it honestly might just be that they don't believe his shooting is real.

You also sure made it seem like "well if all 30 teams are passing on the kid maybe there is something you don't know Nostradamus" I don't care that all 30 teams are passing on him... I just don't. I'm 100% comfortable being there saying all 30 teams are wrong if thats the case. Its not relevant to me at all. I've been on an island in life many times and been right.

Then you will roll in and say you don't agree that he should be passed up... then why mention that 30 teams are passing him up because of some mystery we don't know? Do you see why I said whatevs yet? Its a circular argument that you don't believe...

Meanwhile... this thread isn't a Shaq thread it is a waive the **** out of NWG thread. Call that whining but that is why we are on the ****ing board... to talk about sports.

Call me whatever you'd like. I evaluate things as I see them and will offer my opinions on the big **** and small stuff.

 

[homeytennis]

You’ve drastically mischaracterized the features of the discussion you’ve had with HH and infection. This further reveals the extent of your injury. I hope you heal up and bring more of some of the good stuff you’ve got in your bag.

Can we end this by just resigning David Stockton? He scored 40 points in a pro league game in Puerto Rico yesterday and was Pro Exposure's player of the day. Former Jazzman Mike Harris played for the other team.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Defensive impact goes beyond stats, though. Deflections aren't much better than steals and blocks when evaluating defense, not that it means it isn't good but you have to watch. When I watch Matisse I see him cover more ground, help better so yes, it's eye test. I can't seem to trust defensive stats much when there is so much they don't input. Not that I don't include them in my evaluation, though.

I agree Matisse plays with better defenders and Shaq's on/off numbers indicate he is a good defender.

Defensive stats are tough... I like some of the catch alls DRPM and such but there aren't perfect measurements. The On/Off stuff is really interesting and it all seems to point in the direction of "shaq is really ****ing good at defense".

Matisse has much more potential as he is 4 years younger, but he's also the type of guy I could see stagnating a bit and not having the nuclear improvement on his rookie year.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Can we end this by just resigning David Stockton? He scored 40 points in a pro league game in Puerto Rico yesterday and was Pro Exposure's player of the day. Former Jazzman Mike Harris played for the other team.

God someone finally with a rational thought.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

In the eyes of the anti-NWG crowd, what kind of season does NWG have to have this year to quell the criticisms of holding onto him?

 

[infection]

In the eyes of the anti-NWG crowd, what kind of season does NWG have to have this year to quell the criticisms of holding onto him?

I would approach this by asking the question of what service is available the he provides, and how valuable is it to us, vs. what service could a replacement provide, and how valuable would that other service be to us.

A short answer would be that his ceiling still has absolutely no impact on what happens this year. None.

 

[KqWIN]

When I reply to you I'm not necessarily putting all the things I say on you directly. When I say some on here are DL fanboys in posts responding to you that is not a direct accusation. You are assuming that all 30 teams are passing on Shaq (bad assumption). You are assuming there is something we don't know... probably fair but that's why I said lets pause there... because it honestly might just be that they don't believe his shooting is real.

You also sure made it seem like "well if all 30 teams are passing on the kid maybe there is something you don't know Nostradamus" I don't care that all 30 teams are passing on him... I just don't. I'm 100% comfortable being there saying all 30 teams are wrong if thats the case. Its not relevant to me at all. I've been on an island in life many times and been right.

Then you will roll in and say you don't agree that he should be passed up... then why mention that 30 teams are passing him up because of some mystery we don't know? Do you see why I said whatevs yet? Its a circular argument that you don't believe...

Meanwhile... this thread isn't a Shaq thread it is a waive the **** out of NWG thread. Call that whining but that is why we are on the ****ing board... to talk about sports.

Call me whatever you'd like. I evaluate things as I see them and will offer my opinions on the big **** and small stuff.

I said that if he's unsigned, there's something we don't know. The thing we don't know is that Shaq could have offers that he's mulling. Maybe even from the Jazz. This is not the first time I've said this. Again, repeating myself. Again, making a point to say that I'm repeating myself so you stop saying I'm doing the exact opposite. Two things could be true. He's either super available and everyone is passing on him, or he's not and he's actually mulling offers or is demanding a lot. Given how great Shaq looks on paper, my guess is that it's probably not so simple to sign him and he's seeking something specific. If it is so simple to sign him, there's some intel we're missing because all 30 teams are deciding against it. Doesn't mean all 30 teams are right, but it's something worth considering.

To me, a good argument and conversation considers the whole picture fairly. If you think MJ is better than LeBron, it's ok to say the LeBron was a better passer and three point shooter. To me it shows weakness if you try to spin it and say that MJ was actually a better passer or 3 point shooter or try to ignore that altogether. So for me, I can believe that Shaq would be a very good signing while also acknowledging that there's probably some context I'm missing. Better yet, I can believe that he's a good signing while also acknowledging that he's had a tough time finding a spot in this league, and typically that means you're just not good enough. That's not missing context that's actually plain and obvious. If you consider all data points, even those that don't directly support your conclusion, I consider that a stronger conclusion than only considering the points that support your conclusion.

 

[KqWIN]

In the eyes of the anti-NWG crowd, what kind of season does NWG have to have this year to quell the criticisms of holding onto him?

If we find ourselves in a situation (injury ect) where we need a PG, he gets minutes. That would be a great starting point. Right now, the only checkpoint he's crossed is not being sent home from the bubble for a coach.

 

[NAOS]

In the eyes of the anti-NWG crowd, what kind of season does NWG have to have this year to quell the criticisms of holding onto him?

He has an uphill battle to remain on the team beyond his guarantee date. He better shoot the ****ing lights out.... (in practice)

 

[homeytennis]

If we find ourselves in a situation (injury ect) where we need a PG, he gets minutes. That would be a great starting point. Right now, the only checkpoint he's crossed is not being sent home from the bubble for a coach.

He would need to put up NBA numbers to his GLeague numbers and team win the NBA title.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I said that if he's unsigned, there's something we don't know. The thing we don't know is that Shaq could have offers that he's mulling. Maybe even from the Jazz. This is not the first time I've said this. Again, repeating myself. Again, making a point to say that I'm repeating myself so you stop saying I'm doing the exact opposite. Two things could be true. He's either super available and everyone is passing on him, or he's not and he's actually mulling offers or is demanding a lot. Given how great Shaq looks on paper, my guess is that it's probably not so simple to sign him and he's seeking something specific. If it is so simple to sign him, there's some intel we're missing because all 30 teams are deciding against it. Doesn't mean all 30 teams are right, but it's something worth considering.

To me, a good argument and conversation considers the whole picture fairly. If you think MJ is better than LeBron, it's ok to say the LeBron was a better passer and three point shooter. To me it shows weakness if you try to spin it and say that MJ was actually a better passer or 3 point shooter or try to ignore that altogether. So for me, I can believe that Shaq would be a very good signing while also acknowledging that there's probably some context I'm missing. Better yet, I can believe that he's a good signing while also acknowledging that he's had a tough time finding a spot in this league, and typically that means you're just not good enough. That's not missing context that's actually plain and obvious. If you consider all data points, even those that don't directly support your conclusion, I consider that a stronger conclusion than only considering the points that support your conclusion.

Okay but the thread isn’t about Shaq... I have no interest in guessing the reasons he isn’t signed... I have no interest in debating that it ain’t a Jazz specific item... that’s why I whatevs’ you on that.

This. Is. Not. About. Shaq.

This is about there being much better options than NWG. The side argument and conversation isn’t pertinent imo sorry if that offends you. I didn’t mean to imply you are a DL fanboy.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

In the eyes of the anti-NWG crowd, what kind of season does NWG have to have this year to quell the criticisms of holding onto him?

It isn’t just about him but in a vacuum he has to be better than Neto.

All in though it’s tied to what is available still and what we need. It’s about Miye being ready... I think he is but I find it curious that a couple months ago he couldn’t get a few seconds on Jamal Murray when we were searching for answers and now he’s our best perimeter defender. Maybe it’s a coaching issue and not a front office thing.

So even if he gets on the floor and provides better than Neto production... if we are still deficient on the wing because of injury or because Miye, Hughes, Forrest aren’t ready then it still can reasonably be viewed as bad use of a spot.

I will commit to if he is better than Neto then his spot was at least justified.

 

[infection]

Is NWG better than RHJ?

I think the idea here is that we’re saying NWG is adequate for a 14th man, and feel he’s favorable when compared against 14th men. But then the replacements were rationalizing aren’t good because maybe they don’t look awesome stacked up against 6th and 7th men.

 

[Friend2bees]

Just an FYI I like Wood last year when he was released ( I know he had maturity issues) and I liked Harrison when the Suns let him go. I thought the Lakers got a steal on Caruso and that he was worth a gamble.

GMs that sign Wes Matthews types when they are vets are making solid moves and are good GMs... the real money is in finding the next Wes Mathews doe. Shaq will get a chance somewhere... I’m not the only person on the bandwagon... plenty of media guys including front office types have also rated him highly.

NBA GMs just prefer name brands... its why Jerami Grant gets 3/60M when teams should be looking for the next Jerami Grant and spending in a more prudent manner.

This... he's been through the league a few times already and has studied some of the guys and has a few reps. Forrest may be his clone but getting the actual guy saves some time. Its very unlikely that rookies contribute this season as they won't have summer league or the extra time to get in shape... nevermind the condensed training camp and pre-season.

So a good move is getting a solid veteran, but the real money is finding the next version of a guy. But also we should sign Shaq Harrison because it saves time even though we might already have the next Shaq Harrison on a 2 way contract?

 

[infection]

So a good move is getting a solid veteran, but the real money is finding the next version of a guy. But also we should sign Shaq Harrison because it saves time even though we might already have the next Shaq Harrison on a 2 way contract?

NWG is the next Blake Ahearn.

 

[kabenac]

Jazz Front Office - If you squint NWG kind of looks like D-Will... and that's good enough for us.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So a good move is getting a solid veteran, but the real money is finding the next version of a guy. But also we should sign Shaq Harrison because it saves time even though we might already have the next Shaq Harrison on a 2 way contract?

Yes because Shaq is currently a free agent and might be available for a minimum deal. Kinda like why develop a Neto (NWG) when the current already developed Neto is available.

Also getting a vet is great if the cost is the same as a minimum prospect. It’s a value thing. If they cost the same (or basically the same) then by all means take the current version of that player.

Also we have seen exactly zero seconds of Trent Forrest it’s wild that people are hanging their hat on him because Cy says he’s the better more talented version of Shaq and their college numbers are similar.

But yeah... ya nailed me.

 

[infection]

Yes because Shaq is currently a free agent and might be available for a minimum deal. Kinda like why develop a Neto (NWG) when the current already developed Neto is available.

Also getting a vet is great if the cost is the same as a minimum prospect. It’s a value thing. If they cost the same (or basically the same) then by all means take the current version of that player.

Also we have seen exactly zero seconds of Trent Forrest it’s wild that people are hanging their hat on him because Cy says he’s the better more talented version of Shaq and their college numbers are similar.

But yeah... ya nailed me.

You can buy a rotisserie chicken at Costco for $3. Or you can spend $3.50 on an egg you can incubate.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You can buy a rotisserie chicken at Costco for $3. Or you can spend $3.50 on an egg you can incubate.

It’s not hard to understand.

Now if eggs are $1 and rotisserie chickens are $100 then by all means incubate... incubate hard.