Yea... but we get to trade Favors!
Cavs, Pacers, Jazz Trade Idea
- Thread starter LoPo
- Start date
Yea... but we get to trade Favors!
LoPo
Well-Known Member
The current roster isn't strong enough to do anything. Maybe the playoffs... In all likelihood, Favors will probably leave after the season. If we re-sign him, we are stupid. And we probably won't pay to re-sign Johnson. Shedding Burks will be huge because he's useless to us and costs us $11+ next year.
I think that the following is stronger:
Asset from trading Hood
Asset from trading Joe Johnson (or we just let him leave after the year)
Space for a player like Jabari Parker or Aaron Gordon. Or space for multiple players like Avery Bradley, Julius Randall, Caldwell-Pope or many others.
Because at the end of the day, my idea is about shedding Burks and improving on Hood. Favors and Johnson are just gone. Sure, we might suffer a little this season, but what are our goals anyway?
SO READ KID INSTEAD OF JUST RUNNING YOUR MOUTH
Why wouldn't teams just wait to sign Favor's? If he good enough to make a team take on that salary? You think he is terrible.. you can't have it both ways.
Also what happens when the team matches like they are planning? We are just out of luck and forced to go full tank and that means we loose Gobert as well.
How many teams don't match rookies going into their first RFA? It almost never happens.
I'm okay with trading Favor's or anyone else on our roster but only if it nets us a solid player on a good contact or a really good player.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
You ask very good questions.
#1 - if you analyze salary numbers for 2018, you will see that there aren't many teams with space. That will impact the buyers market which means players won't get as much. Also means teams can't buy players they might want. And it also helps Favors since a team could re-sign easier than as a free agent. I've never disliked Favors until we built around Gobert. They just don't fit together.
#2 - if teams match, we can't do anything about it. Like I've said before, this trade is about dropping Burks more than adding a superstar. If we get the superstar, great. If not, we dump Burks a year early for a guy we probably lose this summer.
#3 - Favors has zero incentive to stay here except for money. If we overpay to keep a player who doesn't really fit, then we don't know what we are doing. He is leaving so get an asset or shed a contract while we can.
MDAV28
Well-Known Member
It's ok. This is the "our players/assets suck, let's trade them for players/assets that are good" guy. I also don't think he knows what restricted free agency is.
Nobody is disputing the fact that this team, as it is constructed, is not perfect. I just want to hear what a legitimate plan is from the "clean house" crew. I honestly can't think of anything other than taking assets and/or young players in a salary dump
LoPo
Well-Known Member
It seems like you can read. So take the time to read the plan.
Its not just restricted targets. Read kid. I know you can.
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MDAV28
Well-Known Member
I said legitimate plan. Dumping half the team for Julius Randle will sure lead us back into the playoffs. Especially when your trade only saves $4 million in cap space. That'll land us 2-3 more FAs for sure.
I would think long and hard about wanting to even keep Randle if he was on the team. He's an outdated player that could be nice off the bench and for cheap, but in no ****ing universe is he a core piece (unless he suddenly pulls a Millsap).
Julius Randle is only a slightly better fit than Favors. He would have similar issues fitting into Quin's system and would probably get even more frustrated as he is a more demonstrative, moody, and selfish player than Favors is.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
My plan involves 4 players. 2 players who we either don't want (Burks) or is leaving anyway (Favors). 1 we probably wont bring back in JoeJ. We keep JoeJ all year. Just dont bring him back.
#4 and question mark is Hood. Do we value him over others we could target in free agency? If we can get a first for him, do we?
So really, I'm dumping 3 players during this season and not "half the team". And I'm getting assets instead of losing yet another guy for nothing.
Hopefully, we get a 1st for Hood and one of these guys:
Parker
Gordon
Randall
Bradley
Caldwell-Pope
Or somebody exotic since we have space - Ingram, Kuzma, first rounders for a bad contract, etc.
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MDAV28
Well-Known Member
Let me lay this out. In this situation you have just presented, we would have a little over $92 million in salary cap/cap holds. So under ~$9 million in cap room. We both know that's nothing to work with for a starter.
Let's say you want more, so you let Thabo, Jerebko, Neto walk. You're at $81 million, about $20 million in cap space. Better, probably enough to sign some UFA. So you just lost 7 players from this team (Hood, Favors, JJ, Thabo, Burks, Jerebko, Neto) which is, yes, half the team.
In return, you gain one of Bradley/KCP/Randle and Cedi Osman and a 1st rounder (and minimum/midlevel players to fill out).
I guess this is an subjective view but is that team really better and/or more situated for the future to you?
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Like I said before - read the thread. Yes, we will lose some guys, but that is happening because of reality not my design. So once again, read:
"Check this out:
If we use this as a guide for summer 2018: http://www.basketballinsiders.com/utah-jazz-team-salary/
Gobert 23.5
Rubio 15
Ingles 13
Thabo 5.2
Udoh 3.4
Mitchell 3.1
Bradley 1.7
Exum Cap Hold of 15
That adds up to 80 million
The projected salary cap for 2018-19 is $101 million...."
In my mind, and if you read, these are the only guys that really matter for 2018 and beyond. Only Hood is TBD. We need assets for others. The current roster will not work.
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What has Parker done to warrant a MAX deal? Dude has had 2 serious knee injuries. He is an average defender too.
People must realize that losing Hayward was a bigger loss than most people want to admit. Right now the Jazz are a mess. The majority of people were excited when the Jazz signed Ingles but they overpaid for the dude.
Hood has a great stroke when he is on but is a very flawed player and seems to not have the alpha gene. When his shot isn't on he melts away. Not saying to trade him but he has value around the league. No way he deserves a Max deal.
Exum - who knows, what sucks is that Jazz might have spent all this time rehabbing the kid and he walks for the money. I would like to keep him but at a reasonable price.
Favors- needs to go. He is not a good fit and wants big money and isn't really worth it in the today's NBA. Besides he has lost his athleticism and seems to be like Hood. When he is on he makes you think he can be an all-star but when he isn't you ask yourself "Where is DFavor?" I would look to trade him mid-season if things do not improve. Even if they do I would probably trade him to get something for him.
Rubio and Donovan - you are in trouble when your team relies on Rubio to be a primary scorer. The most disappointing thing is lack of passing and high turnover rate. Donovan is learning bad habits with the green light he has been given. Quinn needs to reign him in a little when he is not shooting well. Tell him to do other things when his shot is not falling. Donovan is a key to the future while Rubio is not. Rubio needs to stop think he is Stephen Marbury and start going back to the 9 assist guy especially when his shot is off.
Like Udoh and Thabo as reserves. Jazz need more guys who can make shots and not take shots.
Burks needs to go. He isn't a good fit and seems to have lost all confidence in himself. Don't think Quinn is a big fan either.
Gobert - needs to get more shots and seems to be frustrated with not being more involved. What worries me is that the Jazz are going to waste his prime while they figure out the rest of the roster.
I know it is earlier and other teams that were suppose to be good are struggling but the Jazz need to start looking in the mirror and find out who they really are. Jazz certainly need a backup plan to rebuild this team in a hurry before wasting Gobert's career.
Right now Donavan and Gobert are the only guys who are foundation guys the rest are assets or liabilities.
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When you become a 20 ppg scorer, on relative efficiency, you become a max player. Just the way it is.
What nonsense. They should get rid of the salary cap and let players make what they can make.
MDAV28
Well-Known Member
Love it. Well I like the salary cap, but get rid of max contracts.
MDAV28
Well-Known Member
You're forgetting Osman 2.7 million and Jefferson's 4 million.
I'm still waiting for you to give me an alternative that makes sense. You keep saying this team doesn't work, "these guys matter going forward, these guys don't" etc. but you can't honestly think gutting the roster to sign KCP/Bradley/Randle is the answer can you?
LoPo
Well-Known Member
You make good points about Jefferson and Osman's contracts. Haste messed me up.
I honestly believe the following roster has a ton of potential in 2018 and 2019 and beyond. In my mind, that is the new target competition date just like we set goals for the 2016-17 season back in 2013 and 2014. We want it to mature at the right time:
PG Bradley
SG Mitchell
SF Ingles, Osman (see 1sts below)
PF Randle
C Gobert
6th man Exum
Our 1st in 2018
1st from Hood trade
Bradley
Rubio was a great fit should Hayward stay. He is not the long term answer though. We need somebody that intertwine with Mitchell (Bradley). If we sign Bradley, we trade Rubio who would be an expiring this summer.
I like Randle. Always have. He is a high motor guy with a bit of range. He does remind me a bit of Millsap. He is a guy we can sign to a current Favors type deal this summer and have at a bargain for a while. He is only playing 19mpg this year with 11.5ppg, 6.3rpg and 1.7apg.
I like some of our guys, but after watching this first set of games, I think we need to strike this summer when there are so few teams who can buy. We cant just lose decent players for nothing anymore. I'm tired of that. Hood to a near max is not the answer. JoeJ was a awesome but its time to move on. Favors and Gobert dont work. Burks is terrible.
Capatilize on assets right now, play the youth and spend money this summer.
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MDAV28
Well-Known Member
I just can't get behind this at all. Yes cap space makes sense, yes the roster construction isn't perfect, yes trading players not in future plans for assets is great (again the whole "these guys have no value, let's trade them for valuable assets" idea is annoying). But the end goal of all this to "strike this summer" is to get Julius freaking Randle. Count me out.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
I understand the hesitation. I do. Our issue since the Stockton and Malone days has been our lack of being bold. Instead of trading all of our draft picks for a great player like Mitch Richmond to put with Stockton and Malone, we kept drafting scrubs. We let AK rot while we could have traded him for value to upgrade the 2 or 3. We let Millsap walk for Kanter who we waited too long trade and Favors who we waited too long to trade. I said trade Hayward 2 years ago and everybody laughed. I knew he was leaving. Why? Because we aren't bold enough. He saw what Korver and Carroll and Millsap did to find success and followed.
We have been bold one time - the Deron trade. And we mucked that up with our picks and the underwhelming Favors. Favors has been good but nobody would have thought his best season would be 16ppg and 9rpg. We expected much, much, much more.
People are complaining, but we are in such a good position right now. We have what looks like 2 great players who really want to be here. We are 2 years away from anything and we have a bunch of expiring assets. Be bold. For the 2nd time in 25 years, be really bold. I think being bold this year is using expirings for a young piece (Kuzma or Ingram for taking Deng) or trying to open cap for a summer we can spend.
Status quo is not enough. This roster is not enough. Pull the bandaid and build it all around Mitchell and Gobert.
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