CBS Utah Jazz Offseason Report

[Deleted member 848]

here's what's funny about this argument... josh howard started in 18 games and took 37 3-point attempts all year so he's not fueling the low percentage much at all. but to the degree that he did, he's actually the poster boy for the argument AGAINST al: he arrived in utah with a career 33.6% rate and then tanked to 24% here. how exactly, then, is al a shooter's dream.

You cannot be this daft. Care to maybe take note of the fact that Howard played (PLAYED, not started) in 22 games over the past two seasons of his?? He came back from ****ing ACL reconstruction for crying out loud. I cannot believe you're using this as a point.

earl had a career % of 33.1% until last year's 19% debacle. tell him that al is a shooter's dream.

LOL

even CJ shot 35% in his three seasons as a rotation player before al arrived. al got here and then it was down to 32% and 31%. shooter's dream.

LOLOLOL

devin is the only guy who really saw his 3 pt percentage improve by playing with al is devin (30.1% before the jazz, 36% here) and that's because he benefited from the one type of assist al knows how to deliver: the reset pass back out to the point on the strong-side wing.

Oh and guess what? What if Devin swings the ball over to another player located on the wing?!?! GASP!! Another open perimeter player!!! Use that great memory of yours to think about how many threes Gordon clanked after Devin got it from Al, and swinged it over to Honzy

 

[Brown Notes]

Going to be a fun year of basketball... Didn't see this posted anywhere. Article from NBA.com.

Iguodala to the Nugs was a huge move IMO. He's on a much better team now, and his defensive effort could be infectious.

https://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/john_schuhmann/09/19/northwest-division-advanced-stats/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

Jazz bit:

Utah Jazz

Record: 36-30
Pace: 93.9 (13)
OffRtg: 103.7 (7)
DefRtg: 103.6 (20)
NetRtg: +0.2 (17)

The Jazz were the surprise team in the Western Conference last season, earning a playoff spot with a very good offense and a defense that was decent enough at home.

They were not a very good shooting team, but the Jazz took care of the ball, got to the free-throw line, and crashed the glass. They ranked second in the league (behind Chicago) with 1,021 second-chance points, which comprised about 16 percent of their total scoring.

This summer, the Jazz replaced Devin Harris, C.J. Miles and Josh Howard with Mo Williams, Marvin Williams and Randy Foye. Changes on the perimeter won't affect Utah's ability to grab offensive boards, but the point guard switch could affect their turnover rate and shooting.

Harris committed 16.4 turnovers per 100 possessions used last season, not a great rate, but better than average for starting point guards. Mo Williams actually had a lower turnover rate (12.1), but wasn't playing the point much with the Clippers. If you go back to his last two years as a starting point guard, his turnover rate was in the same range as Harris'.

Mo Williams, of course, is a much better shooter than Harris, especially from 3-point range (40.1 percent vs. 31.6 percent over the last five seasons). And that's where the Jazz need the most help offensively. They ranked 27th in 3-point percentage and 28th in total 3-pointers last season.

Foye and Marvin Williams have both been pretty inconsistent from beyond the arc over the course of their careers, but they each shot 39 percent last season. And if the Jazz can complement their interior dominance with improved shooting, they can be an elite offensive team.

Utah's defense will improve if Derrick Favors takes more minutes from Al Jefferson. The Jazz allowed just 94.7 points per 100 possessions in 466 minutes with Favors and Paul Millsap on the floor together last season, vs. 104.9 in 1,818 minutes with Jefferson and Millsap on the floor.

 

[theNBAnerd]

You cannot be this daft. Care to maybe take note of the fact that Howard played (PLAYED, not started) in 22 games over the past two seasons of his?? He came back from ****ing ACL reconstruction for crying out loud. I cannot believe you're using this as a point.

umm... you used it for YOUR argument, but now that i turned it around on you, it's invalid?! how is that intellectually honest, my friend?

bottom line is you said that al was good for shooters and then said that the only reason our shooting was low is because al had to play with bad shooters. how does that argument even stack up?

in fact, al is NOT good for shooters, until the shooters realize that the only way they're going to get the ball back is if they stand 10 feet from al at angle left and wait for the one pass he has historically been able to deliver with any real consistency.

LOL


LOLOLOL

why is it funny to respond to the assertion that al benefits 3-point shooters by pointing out three-point shooters that got worse by playing with al?

Oh and guess what? What if Devin swings the ball over to another player located on the wing?!?! GASP!! Another open perimeter player!!! Use that great memory of yours to think about how many threes Gordon clanked after Devin got it from Al, and swinged it over to Honzy

well now you're changing that argument. if al were so good for shooters, then gordon wouldn't be clanking that shot because of all the attention al draws.

so which one is your position, because you can't keep moving back and forth:
a) al is so good that he makes three-point shooters around him better
b) yes, our 3-point shooting sucks, but it's not al's fault, it's because we have all these bad three-point shooters

seriously, you're contradicting yourself here, sometimes within the same post.

 

[fishonjazz]

You cannot be this daft. Care to maybe take note of the fact that Howard played (PLAYED, not started) in 22 games over the past two seasons of his?? He came back from ****ing ACL reconstruction for crying out loud. I cannot believe you're using this as a point.



LOL


LOLOLOL



Oh and guess what? What if Devin swings the ball over to another player located on the wing?!?! GASP!! Another open perimeter player!!! Use that great memory of yours to think about how many threes Gordon clanked after Devin got it from Al, and swinged it over to Honzy

Just curious dalamon, Do you ever just say "i was wrong" in any situation?
You seem to fight your point to the death every time.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Just curious dalamon, Do you ever just say "i was wrong" in any situation?
You seem to fight your point to the death every time.

Uhh.. Yes? See PKM's sig. Trust me, Im 19* (ha), and I am fully aware that there that there is SO much about basketball that I do not know about. The only time I won't give in during an argument when I really think I'm right. This, along with my discussion with AKMVP a few days ago, are both these sorts of times.

umm... you used it for YOUR argument, but now that i turned it around on you, it's invalid?! how is that intellectually honest, my friend?

Slow down turbo. My argument was that, plain and simple, our shooting percentage sucked this season NOT BECAUSE OF AL, but because of poor shooting. You then said "oh, well JHo is historically a great shooter" and I was like okay, maybe before ACL reconstruction. How exactly is my argument invalid? Intellectually dishonest, seriously? I am saying our shooting woes suck because someone is starting who still doesn't have a fully recovered ACL. Not because of our friggin 5. I think you've simply lot touch with what we are talking about in the first place, and you're trying to set up a straw man and try and "defeat" a point I never made. But whatever.

bottom line is you said that al was good for shooters and then said that the only reason our shooting was low is because al had to play with bad shooters. how does that argument even stack up?

Uhh, what? What do you mean this argument doesn't stack up?!?! Someone please tell me if I'm seriously reading this right now.

in fact, al is NOT good for shooters, until the shooters realize that the only way they're going to get the ball back is if they stand 10 feet from al at angle left and wait for the one pass he has historically been able to deliver with any real consistency.

I guess we will find out this season, now won't we? This is seriously making me lol.

 

[Deleted member 848]

why is it funny to respond to the assertion that al benefits 3-point shooters by pointing out three-point shooters that got worse by playing with al?





well now you're changing that argument. if al were so good for shooters, then gordon wouldn't be clanking that shot because of all the attention al draws.

so which one is your position, because you can't keep moving back and forth:
a) al is so good that he makes three-point shooters around him better
b) yes, our 3-point shooting sucks, but it's not al's fault, it's because we have all these bad three-point shooters

seriously, you're contradicting yourself here, sometimes within the same post.

This is even worse. Im off to have dinner, Ill respond to this soon

 

[Deleted member 848]

why is it funny to respond to the assertion that al benefits 3-point shooters by pointing out three-point shooters that got worse by playing with al?





well now you're changing that argument. if al were so good for shooters, then gordon wouldn't be clanking that shot because of all the attention al draws.

so which one is your position, because you can't keep moving back and forth:
a) al is so good that he makes three-point shooters around him better
b) yes, our 3-point shooting sucks, but it's not al's fault, it's because we have all these bad three-point shooters

seriously, you're contradicting yourself here, sometimes within the same post.

Nope, you're skimming through my posts and putting words into my mouth. Lets restart.


Al Jefferson is the focal point of our offense. Due to the attention that Al Jefferson, and the rest of our paint-players draw (but mostly Al), opponent team-defenses sag into the paint. Very simple basketball, and I'm sure you're completely aware with how this works.

As a result, having Al Jefferson as the focal point of our offense should make three-point shooters better, because Al has become slowly formidable at passing out of the low block, and you'd have to be blind to fault to recognize how many open looks the perimeter players got this season, due to the attention that Al was getting in the paint.


NOW. Despite all of these open looks, most of our team started off rather cold in three point shooting. You interestingly bring up Gordon Hayward, saying that the reason he clanks shots is because Al doesn't draw enough attention. To me, this is intellectual-dishonesty at his finest.

Gordon Hayward shot 24.6% from three before the All-Star break, and 42.4% from three after the All-Star break. Are you gonna use the same logic, and state that Gordon started shooting better because Al started demanding more attention? Like get real. Everyone knew he started the season with a massive slump. He was even sent to the bench because the dude could not hit an open shot. So you have Gordon as a starter bricking wide open threes, JHo who can't hit an open three to save his life (likely because he is still recovering from ACL reconstruction), and a Devin Harris who shot 32% before the All-Star break and 38% after the All-Star break. And you attribute this not to the players, but to Al Jefferson? What?



As you can see, my points are not contradicting themselves in any sense. Having a ball-dominating 5 in an offense that regularly draws double teams leaves perimeter players open when he is doubled, tripled, whatever. Our players got these open looks, and failed to convert them because we were an awful shooting team, and our only two good shooters (disregarding Braille here, who interestingly also proves your point wrong as he shot fairly close to his career percentage despite being on the latter end of his career) could not break 33% from three by the time the All-Star break rolled around. Since our shooters sucked, a player like AL is more reluctant to pass it out to the wing, as it is an almost guaranteed clank. Once Devin started making shots, Al passed to him more and more, culminating in the Miami Heat game where Al drew a double and dished it out to Harris en-route for the and-one.

 

[Deleted member 848]

But seriously, I guess we will find out who's right towards the end. I don't think we seem to be convincing each other here. Regardless, Im pretty sure KOC knows what he's talking about, and he seems to essentially agree with my line of thinking. I'm curious to see how our offense changes now that we are LARGELY a much better three-point shooting team.

 

[fishonjazz]

For the record, i agree that Al gets guys good opportunities for wide open looks by being doubled and tripled alot. But those statistics nerd posted totally contradict that. Maybe all our outside shooters just happened to be in a slump in the same year. it could be simply a wierd coincidence and now this year lets hope that williams squared, foye, burks, etc all have thier best years from deep because they should be getting open looks..... especially Mo.

Or **** it, just trade or bench al and play the 4 big minutes and roll with whatever happens during the development process.

 

[NotDeadYet]

Regarding the article, it did not consider Hayward as one of our SGs, referring to Burks and Murphy as our SGs while praising the addition of Foye. Other than that, very much spot on! Given our sudden abundance of SGs, Hayward seems likely to spend time at both positions, depending on where he's needed.
Another point; Marvin Williams could really help us on the boards, as he's a bit taller and much bigger than Hayward.

 

[Ben10]

All I really want to see is a lot more of this from the young guys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNUA1UjflW8&feature=related