Charlottesville

[Deleted member 848]

Hitler going on a continent wide attack is not equatable to a couple hundred people marching.

what is the line you want to draw-- when they come for you and yours? WWII was as failure, lives were lost because the response was too slow.

 

[RandyForRubio]

what is the line you want to draw-- when they come for you and yours? WWII was as failure, lives were lost because the response was too slow.

The scenarios are not remotely similar.

 

[babe]

[MENTION=970]babe[/MENTION], are you telling me your post is a work of art? The Charlottesville situation was an antifa work of art? Or this thread is a work of art?

@Game [MENTION=4984]Bulletproof[/MENTION]= "100Proof", much much better than 3.2

Clearly, I know so little about anything, whatever I write must be considered art. Fiction or non-fiction. If reality is a wheatfield in sunlight, I'm Vincent Van Gogh.....

I get bored with stuff pretty easy, I like to color things a lot.....

I still wonder who pays the stooges on the "Right" to be contemptible haters that can mobilize waves of massive public hate, as much as who pays the deliberately violent "Left" to smash and burn peoples stores on whatever city's main drag.

Most of the racists imo are living in hideouts/homes in the woods of Oregon, Washington, northern Idaho or Montana. far from the East or South where colorful folks live in significant numbers. Nevada has too many shoshones/Paiutes, Asians, Mexicans/Hispanics, and Blacks, and rapidly growing middle easterners. Living off the grid in the most rural redoubts of the whitest sort of America is a long walk from Charlottesville. So pardon me if I just don't see it as "genuine" or "local" hate. Somebody had to rent a damn bus to get that many folks to the demonstration.


And the only racist I have known cashed in and started hiring Filipinos and truckloads of illegals from the south. His German wife left him. Funny how money changes everything. /well, besides the nationalist/racist Filipinos of the Iglesia ni Cristo who believe they are the chosen race, or the Koreans, or the Japanese traditionalists aka "Shogun" types, or the British who believe Christ's family brought "The Holy Grail" to England in the care of Joseph of Arimathea who owned the tin mines, and that their Royal higharses have the birthright of King David, and whatnot, all over the whole damn world.

but hey, Trump is still an idiot, and worse still, an idiot with a temper, who really needs a good speechwriter/PR man going over everything with a holy terror for whatever can be made of stupid words.

The man has so little care for "race" he literally doesn't even know what the word means.

 

[The Thriller]

the funny thing about all this is we are giving these haters exactly what they want a moment in the spot light. If we ignored them and let them spew their hate and walk on by, as long as there is no violence, they will disappear because they are not getting the attention that they wanted.

Could you please name one instance where injustice was resolved by ignoring it?

Make injustice visible.

Mahatma Gandhi

There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.

Elie Wiesel

We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.

Elie Wiesel

I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs.

Frederick Douglass

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke

 

[Stoked]

what is the line you want to draw-- when they come for you and yours? WWII was as failure, lives were lost because the response was too slow.

The line I would draw is when they move past marching and protesting and start "coming" for people. It doesn't have to be me. They have the right to voice their vile, ugly and disgusting opinions.

Also, again this rag tag group of idiots and bigots is not even remotely comparable to WWII Germany. But I see the point you are trying to make.

 

[fishonjazz]

Hitler going on a continent wide attack is not equatable to a couple hundred people marching.

Didn't say it was.
I said I'm glad someone used violence to oppose Hitler.
In other words, I disagree with those saying violence is never the answer. I think that sometimes violence is necessary and serves a purpose.

 

[The Thriller]

listening to so many on the right excuse Trump and justify these nazis is disheartening yet unsurprising.

The unofficial spokesperson for the repub party has done nothing but bash alt left and justify the neo nazis. I've been listening to Rush Limbaugh periodically today and he compared the alt left protesters who faced off against the white supremacists as communists and BLM "thugs" (he sprinkled the term thugs throughout his entire intro today). Throughout his first hour he supported Trump's comparison of eliminating that this will eventually lead to eliminating all signs of Washington, Jefferson, and traces of our Founding Fathers (dog whistle tactic that completely and unequivocally promotes subtly what white supremacists claim). He just barely got off a 10 min call with a woman who claims that the alt right is the result of leftists who control the university education system.

I'm sure Hannity later today will go off in a similar direction. Probably bring up the Clinton/Soros boogeyman.

It's this type of brainwashing that really scares me. It explains why Trump, who has done zero to actually improve the lives of 99.9 percent of his voters, still somehow remains popular despite the bottom completely falling out among independents and democrats.

 

[Gameface]

@Game [MENTION=4984]Bulletproof[/MENTION]= "100Proof", much much better than 3.2

Clearly, I know so little about anything, whatever I write must be considered art. Fiction or non-fiction. If reality is a wheatfield in sunlight, I'm Vincent Van Gogh.....

I get bored with stuff pretty easy, I like to color things a lot.....

I still wonder who pays the stooges on the "Right" to be contemptible haters that can mobilize waves of massive public hate, as much as who pays the deliberately violent "Left" to smash and burn peoples stores on whatever city's main drag.

Most of the racists imo are living in hideouts/homes in the woods of Oregon, Washington, northern Idaho or Montana. far from the East or South where colorful folks live in significant numbers. Nevada has too many shoshones/Paiutes, Asians, Mexicans/Hispanics, and Blacks, and rapidly growing middle easterners. Living off the grid in the most rural redoubts of the whitest sort of America is a long walk from Charlottesville. So pardon me if I just don't see it as "genuine" or "local" hate. Somebody had to rent a damn bus to get that many folks to the demonstration.


And the only racist I have known cashed in and started hiring Filipinos and truckloads of illegals from the south. His German wife left him. Funny how money changes everything. /well, besides the nationalist/racist Filipinos of the Iglesia ni Cristo who believe they are the chosen race, or the Koreans, or the Japanese traditionalists aka "Shogun" types, or the British who believe Christ's family brought "The Holy Grail" to England in the care of Joseph of Arimathea who owned the tin mines, and that their Royal higharses have the birthright of King David, and whatnot, all over the whole damn world.

but hey, Trump is still an idiot, and worse still, an idiot with a temper, who really needs a good speechwriter/PR man going over everything with a holy terror for whatever can be made of stupid words.

The man has so little care for "race" he literally doesn't even know what the word means.

**** you. You want to make references to alcohol in a thread where nothing I've posted and nothing in this thread gives that any relevancy.

Don't talk to me. Don't @me. You're not creative, you're not funny, you don't express unique ideas. You regurgitate conspiracy theories from people who don't even believe them, but use them to appeal to idiots like you.

You're the most boring poster on this site. You've never once, as far as I know, posted anything in the Jazz forum and have never, as far as I know, expressed any interest in the Jazz. Why are you here?

 

[DutchJazzer]

You are right they do. But that violence has not been one sided. Portions of the right and left, usually the hardcore fringes where groups like these supremacists and antifa reside have been engaged in violence and intimidation since the primaries. Both sides have gone way past any acceptable behavior.

Now beyond their tendencies to get violent I am not really trying to equate antifa with the supremacists on the issue of race. As to me antifa isn't racist. I disagree with [MENTION=848]dalamon[/MENTION] that violence has it's place in this. But I do not think the notion that one side alone started the violence like Dutch does either. These two movements/alliances are both to blame

Also just saw a video of the President going off on the media over this issue. All I could think was "way to throw gas on the fire". Stupid.

tell me when ben shapiro spoke in universities. show me the violence the right committed! or do you consider ben shapiro extreme racist right nazi? their where enough free speech rallies by people that where counter protested with violence by antifa!

now it escelated. the alt media warned that somebody was gonna get killed. the mainstream media largely ignored it

anti-fa is just as racist! how about what happened evergreen. that was racism from the left! because the media is on the same side as antifa they ignored and toelrated the racism and violence from that

 

[Tak]

Sure.

As mentioned in this very thread you have to look at their motivations, beliefs and goals.

"Unite The Right" is based off the principle that one "race" is superior to the other. Hate and suppression are core tenants of its belief and motivation.

One is based off a desire for social progress and increased government benefits and fairness. It is not based off of hate based on skin tone, orientation, religion...

One is a hate movement and the other is not.

I think you have a very naive view of what ANTIFA really is and what are their goals, here is a very constructive read from the Red Guards, an ANTIFA chapter from Austin: http://redguardsaustin.wordpress.com/2017/05/03/fight-fail-fight-again-fail-again-fight-again-until-victory/

You got one thing right though, ANTIFA will not hate you based on your skin tone, orientation or religion, they will hate you if you just disagree with them.

 

[DutchJazzer]

This.
I'm glad that "the other side" used violence against Hitler back in the day.

but hitler did use force and violence first.

it is not comparable!

hitler litterally threw jews in the oven. murdered stole from jews.


how is that comparable to ben shapiro going to a univeristy and giving a speech!

 

[Stoked]

tell me when ben shapiro spoke in universities. show me the violence the right committed! or do you consider ben shapiro extreme racist right nazi? their where enough free speech rallies by people that where counter protested with violence by antifa!

now it escelated. the alt media warned that somebody was gonna get killed. the mainstream media largely ignored it

anti-fa is just as racist! how about what happened evergreen. that was racism from the left! because the media is on the same side as antifa they ignored and toelrated the racism and violence from that

No, I will not answer your random unconnected questions. They have nothing to do with what I said and I don't feel the need to answer your random thoughts.

 

[The Thriller]

but hitler did use force and violence first.

it is not comparable!

hitler litterally threw jews in the oven. murdered stole from jews.


how is that comparable to ben shapiro going to a univeristy and giving a speech!

He didn't throw Jews into ovens first. First, he used the legislative process to essentially take away their citizenship. Much like how Trump is trying desperately to take away votings rights of minorities, make it increasingly more difficult for them to obtain an education, and make it easier for them to be incarcerated.

https://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007695

At the annual party rally held in Nuremberg in 1935, the Nazis announced new laws which institutionalized many of the racial theories prevalent in Nazi ideology. The laws excluded German Jews from Reich citizenship and prohibited them from marrying or having sexual relations with persons of "German or related blood." Ancillary ordinances to the laws disenfranchised Jews and deprived them of most political rights.

The Nuremberg Laws, as they became known, did not define a "Jew" as someone with particular religious beliefs. Instead, anyone who had three or four Jewish grandparents was defined as a Jew, regardless of whether that individual identified himself or herself as a Jew or belonged to the Jewish religious community. Many Germans who had not practiced Judaism for years found themselves caught in the grip of Nazi terror. Even people with Jewish grandparents who had converted to Christianity were defined as Jews.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Didn't say it was.
I said I'm glad someone used violence to oppose Hitler.
In other words, I disagree with those saying violence is never the answer. I think that sometimes violence is necessary and serves a purpose.

initiation of force is always wrong.

responding with force to the ination of force is right.


hitler initiated force.
please show me how unite the right started the violence and i agree!

 

[DutchJazzer]

No, I will not answer your random unconnected questions. They have nothing to do with what I said and I don't feel the need to answer your random thoughts.

it is not unconected.


the right held all kind of marches and protested.
some far right some just center.
everytime the media ignored the violence from the left. the racism from the left!

now that it escelated and fighting back has started. you say antifa is not racist!


yes they ARE! you and the media just ignored that

 

[DutchJazzer]

He didn't throw Jews into ovens first. First, he used the legislative process to essentially take away their citizenship. Much like how Trump is trying desperately to take away votings rights of minorities, make it increasingly more difficult for them to obtain an education, and make it easier for them to be incarcerated.

https://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007695

still how is that comparable to marching in a street, in a country with a 1st amendment?

 

[Harambe]

The scenarios are not remotely similar.

"We're taking our country back" and "We want a fair shake" aren't remotely similar either. Yet, here you are.

 

[The Thriller]

still how is that comparable to marching in a street, in a country with a 1st amendment?

You're the one doing that.

I was correcting you.

 

[RandyForRubio]

"We're taking our country back" and "We want a fair shake" aren't remotely similar either. Yet, here you are.

I'm not supporting the white supremacists.

Do you have a point here?

 

[RandyForRubio]

Didn't say it was.
I said I'm glad someone used violence to oppose Hitler.
In other words, I disagree with those saying violence is never the answer. I think that sometimes violence is necessary and serves a purpose.

So these nazis/white supremacists marching...do they not have the right to do so? As long as they're not creating distraction, creating violence, I think so.

And yes, they are awful. They are disgusting. They are wrong. But bringing violence on them right now is not the answer. It just makes matters worse. Punch a nazi? I'd love to. But it's the wrong move. Violence won't show them why they're wrong, it just justifies their position (in their mind).