JazzAvenues
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Kuzma is crying right now
Eh, Ainge was never gonna be splashing on free agents he was always gonna be using his cap space to take on bad money or buy low on someone.
They aren't concerned with fit right now. They're not at the 'contender' portion of the timeline yet. They're acquiring as much talent and value as possible so they have a multitude of options to build a championship team. Lauri wants to be in Utah long-term and his extension is the only timing-critical piece of this.
Getting a good player, and potentially a great player if he bounces back from the finger and weird role, for free is a good move for the Jazz.
Based on how he does they can keep him or use him to make the money work in a trade where, for example, they exchange their treasure trove of draft picks for Luka Doncic.
This CBA is really a mid market owners dream. The hawks were never going to be in the second apron. They weren’t even going to be in the tax. They traded away 5 seconds last year to get under the tax at the deadline. And traded away a young player on a decent deal before the season for a first. They made those deals well before this new CBA was agreed upon. They have never been in the tax since Ressler bought the team.
The entire point of the luxury tax was that it was supposed to be so financially unfeasible to stay over it that it would essentially act as a hard cap with just a little more flexibility to not have to break up great teams early. Warriors and Clippers broke that reality by making insane amounts of money and having an owner that didn't give a **** about losing tons of money respectively, but it was never supposed to work that way from the competitive standpoint of the league. This new CBA is literally just returning things to how they were meant to be and increasing parity, owners were never supposed to be able to just outspend their way to superteams
Honest question, why did the players agree to this new CBA?
What do they get out of it?
can someone describe to me a pro that came of the new cba? all I see are teams building through the draft being punished and unintended negative consequences
This new CBA just doesnt make sense when there's also the notion of supermax. Teams will have 1-2 maxes and a ton of minimums man. It's so unfair to role players
[Basketball Reference] John Collins has the 5th most win shares by any player in the 2017 draft class (32.3). In Utah, he joins the player with the 6th most, Lauri Markkanen.
Utah is going to get a lot out of John Collins.
1966-1967 Wilt Chamberlain: 24.1 PPG / 68.3% EFG
2015-2016 Steph Curry: 30.1 PPG / 63.0% EFG
2019-2020 JOHN COLLINS: 21.6 PPG / 63.2% EFG
2022-2023 Nikola Jokic: 24.5% / 66% EFG
This means they can trade for a salary of up to 25.3 without matching salaries , or without worrying about going over the cap
This new luxury tax penalties is gonna skull **** so many players it's insane. Owners finally got their hard cap basically.
Damn his value was THAT low lol
My first reaction was "Wow Rudy Gobert? The Wolves gave up on him that quick?".
And then I realized Rudy Gay possibly still plays in the league?
Same bro.
Just glanced at it and almost started laughing.
He's actually a solid to good defender. Can't create for himself, but not many 4's can.
I don't think Hawks ever really used him right. But the big question is that finger - if it never goes away, he may never be able to shoot right again.
So basically - it's a bad contract, but a lot of that "badness" is tied up in injury risk. Should he return to form, he's more just mildly overpaid.
Throughout his career the Hawks have always been better defensively with him on the floor than with him off it. And consider the fact that he plays a lot of his minutes with Trae Young.
Idk how well rounded his offensive game is but at the very least he’s been efficient. Including from deep over his career sample. I really don’t understand this return. It’s like they just cut him.
Rudy Gay is still in the NBA?!?!?
Salary Dump
I mean sure, bad contract and Collins' shot could be broken but c'mon now that's highway robbery for Utah - Ainge strikes again
Ainge must be blackmailing other gms or something. I can't comprehend how he achieves these deals to be agreed upon.
What do we do now the John Collins rumours are done
Lol Rudy gay
Trade value in the gutter holy ****
I honestly expected a better return for Rudy Gay.
5 years of trade rumors for this?
For real, it’s Danny ****ing Ainge. He’d trade his own mother for a couple 2nd Rounders.
Nah theres no way Utah is trying to pay that full contract. They is a flip. A pump and dump.
This is a trade you find on BBGM insane mode
They deadass got NOTHING
The Rudy Gay part is what's insane. Collins is somewhere in his house screaming "I'M WORTH ONE RUDY GAY????"
Jesus that market value plummeted
its the looming salary cap rules
It’s crazy to see guys like Collins, who has been floated for all kinds of different decent trade packages over the years, essentially getting dumped for whatever they can get. Value in NBA is fickle af
Shocking how much of a salary dump that is. He will look great in Utah I bet too
It feels like a pretty lazy comparison, but he does seem like a prime candidate for a Lauri Markannen type breakout. At different points, Collins has shown the ability to be an elite finisher, good shooter, and good defender. He just hasn't put it all together lately due to the Hawks roster, his injuries, and some inconsistency.
Not saying he's going to he an all-star of course, but I could see this trade looking bad for the Hawks in hindsight.
It looks bad for the Hawks already because they held onto him too long.
I don’t think he thrives on the Jazz because they don’t need another shooter - they need the old Collins that rebounded and finished at the rim. I don’t think he wants to be that guy anymore.
But who cares, because Ainge is going to trade him for more than what he’s worth right now. That contract isn’t going to age well - they’ll move him before it hurts their future.
Lauri starts at the 3, Collins the 4, and Kessler the 5. Hendricks can back up the 3 and 4 spots. Don't see any issue personally.
Utah might be stupid good next year and be top 5 in the west
Kessler is the bonafide center and markkanen has proven to be the small forward. Really gonna be more of a battle between Collins and Hendricks, which will be good for both of them tbh
which is the worst sell low move? Your contenders:
ATL on Collins
GSW on Poole
WAS on Beal
Hawks were shopping him for years and wanted a first round pick back. now they are salary dumping him
Getting salary dumped at 25 years old is brutal
Gay Sex is broken up
Unbelievable value for the Jazz
And here I am reading the headline too fast and seeing “Rudy” thinking they were reading Rudy gobert lol
I saw Rudy G and was like he was already traded, how are they trading him again
Jazz aren’t aiming for anything yet
They full on rebuilding. Might as well take on the contract and a second chance for a guy in a new place.
Worked out pretty well with Lauri
It's really not that bad a contract. It was bad in the context of the Hawks roster
Literally for a bag of chips and another bag of chips in the future.
LMFAOO, my god this is such a pathetic return. I know his value has tanked but damn i didn’t think it was this bad
This off-season is the opposite of last year where everyone was being traded for too much. Now guys are getting traded for a bag of chips and the corps of Rudy Gay.
utah getting collins for free basically is so good lol. if they can bring him back to form, it's gonna be the steal of a lifetime - and if they can't, they just use him to acquire bad salary+picks in the future when he is expiring.
Rudy gay getting traded in 2023 is not what we expected
I mean thats a great trade for utah. Look at how they allowed lauri to bloom. Kessler at the 5, collins at the 4, lauri at the 3. And they’re all 26 and below. John collins has averaged 20 10 before and is a really good shooter for his position.. and they got him for scraps lol
Rudy Gay and a second is insane
You know what, I love this for Utah. You've got to spend the money under the new CBA. Worst case scenario, you've got a moderately-sized (18% of the cap) expiring on your books in 2025-26.) Best case scenario, he's good and you get free positive value.
Hate it for the Hawks. They're just going to be objectively worse, and this is just cheapness.
I was never high in Collins, but I’ve never seen a players value decrease this much.
Holy ****, they couldn't get any more than th
two thoughts:
finally, john collins has been traded; trade rumors about him began when? 3 seasons ago?
rudy gay is still in the league lmao
I don’t think this is a “Donovan Mitchell like package” but at least it finally happened.
I thought it said Rudy Gobert for a minute and was tripping out
getting John Collins for a second round pick seems like a steal. a rebuilding team like Utah just needs to acquire as many good players as possible to see who is actually good and works in a team
Why did Danny Ainge leave the Celtics for the Jazz of all teams to be their GM?
W-what?? Why would Hawks do this
it’s crazy how we went from rudy gobert being traded for 20 first rounders to being payers better than him or on the same level being acquired for literally nothing
Damn the new CBA so tough teams are going to be giving good players away just to clear salary.
My guy got put on the curb for free pickup basically.
Danny Ainge doing Danny Ainge things
why do the jazz want so many pfs damn
bro that’s absurdly cheap
ngl when i saw "Rudy G" and "Utah" i was spinning
Holy **** the new CBA has teams terrified. Poole and Collins dumped for peanuts.
I actually like this move for Utah. JC is a good player (though overpaid) that I could see rehabbing his value
This is a good low risk gamble by Ainge imo
Big W for the Jazz even if Collins forgot how to shoot
Damn could've gotten John Collins in my rec league if I knew he was going for a bag of chips
Legitimately one of the worst trades I've ever seen. Turning a quality player like John Collins into just a salary dump, getting absolutely nothing in return.
Holy ****, it’s finally happening, we should’ve known when the first of seven beals was broken.
Collins is not nearly bad enough that you have to unload his contract like it's a plague. What exactly they think they doing with the cap spacd?
In the year of our lord 2023 I can't believe Rudy Gay was involved in a trade.
My guess is he will play well for the jazz and they will use his contract, maybe sextons and a couple 1st's to make a big trade for a star point guard. Or we are just going to be the biggest team ever with three 7 footers, two 6'9 wings, and two 6'5" guards.
I got ten bucks that says the Jazz flip Collins into at least two firsts.
Jesus... the Hawks are dumping an All-Star caliber power forward for a second round pick?
He's a 20/10 player when you give him the minutes and shots.
WTF?
This is such a dumb move. Could they literally not get ANYTHING else for him?
I mean, call up the Spurs and dump him on them for some firsts at least. I'm sure they'd take him.
Seriously.... their GM needs to be fired for this.
Being Traded for a washing machine is less disrespectful.
Finally the John Collin trade talks is over after 1000yrs
The Jazz FLEECED, DANNY AINGE MASTERCLASS
Hell of a trade by Danny. Get some talent and have a shot to rebuild his value and trade him when his contract seems more palatable and tbh probably becomes a positive asset.
Finally. This also thanks pressure off Hendricks to play right away. I’m all in on the jazz rebuilding Collins value and trading him when Hendricks is ready. This could be similar to when the pistons signed Jerami Grant and traded him.
This is an example on what the new CBA is going to do to teams and moves going forward. Good luck to everyone's franchices. May the expansion happen sooner rather than later.
Jazz might be reallly really good defensively next year especially if they don’t shop sexton….. Kessler at 5, Collins at 4, Markannen at 3?? Gonna be impossible to score inside
A future second??? With all the firsts that the Jazz have?
For some reason it feels like Rudy Gay is playing longer than I’m alive.
Eh, Ainge was never gonna be splashing on free agents he was always gonna be using his cap space to take on bad money or buy low on someone.
They aren't concerned with fit right now. They're not at the 'contender' portion of the timeline yet. They're acquiring as much talent and value as possible so they have a multitude of options to build a championship team. Lauri wants to be in Utah long-term and his extension is the only timing-critical piece of this.
Getting a good player, and potentially a great player if he bounces back from the finger and weird role, for free is a good move for the Jazz.
Based on how he does they can keep him or use him to make the money work in a trade where, for example, they exchange their treasure trove of draft picks for Luka Doncic.
This CBA is really a mid market owners dream. The hawks were never going to be in the second apron. They weren’t even going to be in the tax. They traded away 5 seconds last year to get under the tax at the deadline. And traded away a young player on a decent deal before the season for a first. They made those deals well before this new CBA was agreed upon. They have never been in the tax since Ressler bought the team.
The entire point of the luxury tax was that it was supposed to be so financially unfeasible to stay over it that it would essentially act as a hard cap with just a little more flexibility to not have to break up great teams early. Warriors and Clippers broke that reality by making insane amounts of money and having an owner that didn't give a **** about losing tons of money respectively, but it was never supposed to work that way from the competitive standpoint of the league. This new CBA is literally just returning things to how they were meant to be and increasing parity, owners were never supposed to be able to just outspend their way to superteams
Honest question, why did the players agree to this new CBA?
What do they get out of it?
can someone describe to me a pro that came of the new cba? all I see are teams building through the draft being punished and unintended negative consequences
This new CBA just doesnt make sense when there's also the notion of supermax. Teams will have 1-2 maxes and a ton of minimums man. It's so unfair to role players
[Basketball Reference] John Collins has the 5th most win shares by any player in the 2017 draft class (32.3). In Utah, he joins the player with the 6th most, Lauri Markkanen.
Utah is going to get a lot out of John Collins.
Players to average 20+ ppg and 63+ EFG% in an NBA season, EVER
1966-1967 Wilt Chamberlain: 24.1 PPG / 68.3% EFG
2015-2016 Steph Curry: 30.1 PPG / 63.0% EFG
2019-2020 JOHN COLLINS: 21.6 PPG / 63.2% EFG
2022-2023 Nikola Jokic: 24.5% / 66% EFG
This means they can trade for a salary of up to 25.3 without matching salaries , or without worrying about going over the cap
This new luxury tax penalties is gonna skull **** so many players it's insane. Owners finally got their hard cap basically.
Damn his value was THAT low lol
My first reaction was "Wow Rudy Gobert? The Wolves gave up on him that quick?".
And then I realized Rudy Gay possibly still plays in the league?
Same bro.
Just glanced at it and almost started laughing.
He's actually a solid to good defender. Can't create for himself, but not many 4's can.
I don't think Hawks ever really used him right. But the big question is that finger - if it never goes away, he may never be able to shoot right again.
So basically - it's a bad contract, but a lot of that "badness" is tied up in injury risk. Should he return to form, he's more just mildly overpaid.
Throughout his career the Hawks have always been better defensively with him on the floor than with him off it. And consider the fact that he plays a lot of his minutes with Trae Young.
Idk how well rounded his offensive game is but at the very least he’s been efficient. Including from deep over his career sample. I really don’t understand this return. It’s like they just cut him.
Rudy Gay is still in the NBA?!?!?
Salary Dump
I mean sure, bad contract and Collins' shot could be broken but c'mon now that's highway robbery for Utah - Ainge strikes again
Ainge must be blackmailing other gms or something. I can't comprehend how he achieves these deals to be agreed upon.
What do we do now the John Collins rumours are done
Lol Rudy gay
Trade value in the gutter holy ****
I honestly expected a better return for Rudy Gay.
5 years of trade rumors for this?
For real, it’s Danny ****ing Ainge. He’d trade his own mother for a couple 2nd Rounders.
Nah theres no way Utah is trying to pay that full contract. They is a flip. A pump and dump.
This is a trade you find on BBGM insane mode
They deadass got NOTHING
The Rudy Gay part is what's insane. Collins is somewhere in his house screaming "I'M WORTH ONE RUDY GAY????"
Jesus that market value plummeted
its the looming salary cap rules
It’s crazy to see guys like Collins, who has been floated for all kinds of different decent trade packages over the years, essentially getting dumped for whatever they can get. Value in NBA is fickle af
Shocking how much of a salary dump that is. He will look great in Utah I bet too
It feels like a pretty lazy comparison, but he does seem like a prime candidate for a Lauri Markannen type breakout. At different points, Collins has shown the ability to be an elite finisher, good shooter, and good defender. He just hasn't put it all together lately due to the Hawks roster, his injuries, and some inconsistency.
Not saying he's going to he an all-star of course, but I could see this trade looking bad for the Hawks in hindsight.
It looks bad for the Hawks already because they held onto him too long.
I don’t think he thrives on the Jazz because they don’t need another shooter - they need the old Collins that rebounded and finished at the rim. I don’t think he wants to be that guy anymore.
But who cares, because Ainge is going to trade him for more than what he’s worth right now. That contract isn’t going to age well - they’ll move him before it hurts their future.
Lauri starts at the 3, Collins the 4, and Kessler the 5. Hendricks can back up the 3 and 4 spots. Don't see any issue personally.
Utah might be stupid good next year and be top 5 in the west
Kessler is the bonafide center and markkanen has proven to be the small forward. Really gonna be more of a battle between Collins and Hendricks, which will be good for both of them tbh
which is the worst sell low move? Your contenders:
ATL on Collins
GSW on Poole
WAS on Beal
Hawks were shopping him for years and wanted a first round pick back. now they are salary dumping him
Getting salary dumped at 25 years old is brutal
Gay Sex is broken up
Unbelievable value for the Jazz
And here I am reading the headline too fast and seeing “Rudy” thinking they were reading Rudy gobert lol
I saw Rudy G and was like he was already traded, how are they trading him again
Jazz aren’t aiming for anything yet
They full on rebuilding. Might as well take on the contract and a second chance for a guy in a new place.
Worked out pretty well with Lauri
It's really not that bad a contract. It was bad in the context of the Hawks roster
Literally for a bag of chips and another bag of chips in the future.
LMFAOO, my god this is such a pathetic return. I know his value has tanked but damn i didn’t think it was this bad
This off-season is the opposite of last year where everyone was being traded for too much. Now guys are getting traded for a bag of chips and the corps of Rudy Gay.
utah getting collins for free basically is so good lol. if they can bring him back to form, it's gonna be the steal of a lifetime - and if they can't, they just use him to acquire bad salary+picks in the future when he is expiring.
Rudy gay getting traded in 2023 is not what we expected
I mean thats a great trade for utah. Look at how they allowed lauri to bloom. Kessler at the 5, collins at the 4, lauri at the 3. And they’re all 26 and below. John collins has averaged 20 10 before and is a really good shooter for his position.. and they got him for scraps lol
Rudy Gay and a second is insane
You know what, I love this for Utah. You've got to spend the money under the new CBA. Worst case scenario, you've got a moderately-sized (18% of the cap) expiring on your books in 2025-26.) Best case scenario, he's good and you get free positive value.
Hate it for the Hawks. They're just going to be objectively worse, and this is just cheapness.
I was never high in Collins, but I’ve never seen a players value decrease this much.
Holy ****, they couldn't get any more than th
two thoughts:
finally, john collins has been traded; trade rumors about him began when? 3 seasons ago?
rudy gay is still in the league lmao
I don’t think this is a “Donovan Mitchell like package” but at least it finally happened.
I thought it said Rudy Gobert for a minute and was tripping out
getting John Collins for a second round pick seems like a steal. a rebuilding team like Utah just needs to acquire as many good players as possible to see who is actually good and works in a team
Why did Danny Ainge leave the Celtics for the Jazz of all teams to be their GM?
W-what?? Why would Hawks do this
it’s crazy how we went from rudy gobert being traded for 20 first rounders to being payers better than him or on the same level being acquired for literally nothing
Damn the new CBA so tough teams are going to be giving good players away just to clear salary.
My guy got put on the curb for free pickup basically.
Danny Ainge doing Danny Ainge things
why do the jazz want so many pfs damn
bro that’s absurdly cheap
ngl when i saw "Rudy G" and "Utah" i was spinning
Holy **** the new CBA has teams terrified. Poole and Collins dumped for peanuts.
I actually like this move for Utah. JC is a good player (though overpaid) that I could see rehabbing his value
This is a good low risk gamble by Ainge imo
Big W for the Jazz even if Collins forgot how to shoot
Damn could've gotten John Collins in my rec league if I knew he was going for a bag of chips
Legitimately one of the worst trades I've ever seen. Turning a quality player like John Collins into just a salary dump, getting absolutely nothing in return.
Holy ****, it’s finally happening, we should’ve known when the first of seven beals was broken.
Collins is not nearly bad enough that you have to unload his contract like it's a plague. What exactly they think they doing with the cap spacd?
In the year of our lord 2023 I can't believe Rudy Gay was involved in a trade.
My guess is he will play well for the jazz and they will use his contract, maybe sextons and a couple 1st's to make a big trade for a star point guard. Or we are just going to be the biggest team ever with three 7 footers, two 6'9 wings, and two 6'5" guards.
I got ten bucks that says the Jazz flip Collins into at least two firsts.
Jesus... the Hawks are dumping an All-Star caliber power forward for a second round pick?
He's a 20/10 player when you give him the minutes and shots.
WTF?
This is such a dumb move. Could they literally not get ANYTHING else for him?
I mean, call up the Spurs and dump him on them for some firsts at least. I'm sure they'd take him.
Seriously.... their GM needs to be fired for this.
Being Traded for a washing machine is less disrespectful.
Finally the John Collin trade talks is over after 1000yrs
The Jazz FLEECED, DANNY AINGE MASTERCLASS
Hell of a trade by Danny. Get some talent and have a shot to rebuild his value and trade him when his contract seems more palatable and tbh probably becomes a positive asset.
Finally. This also thanks pressure off Hendricks to play right away. I’m all in on the jazz rebuilding Collins value and trading him when Hendricks is ready. This could be similar to when the pistons signed Jerami Grant and traded him.
This is an example on what the new CBA is going to do to teams and moves going forward. Good luck to everyone's franchices. May the expansion happen sooner rather than later.
Jazz might be reallly really good defensively next year especially if they don’t shop sexton….. Kessler at 5, Collins at 4, Markannen at 3?? Gonna be impossible to score inside
A future second??? With all the firsts that the Jazz have?
For some reason it feels like Rudy Gay is playing longer than I’m alive.
