Compelling Pro Life Argument

[Alfalfa]

I think he already answered your question a while back with something about life beginning even before conception by way of sperm being life and eggs as well?

Something to that effect.

So essentially you are aborting some form of human life with every act of masturbation lol.
Murderers all of us!

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He asked if it's a human. Not if it's alive. A tomato is alive.

 

[fishonjazz]

He asked if it's a human. Not if it's alive. A tomato is alive.

There is potentially a human life in that sperm though. Tomato isn't the same. Straw man

I agree about the when is it actually human though.

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[lauriandres]

What constitutes "forced" in your world? If a disempowered woman has sex with her lawful partner, even if she doesn't want to but feels no power to object, is that forced sex, ergo rape? If social/religious norms require that women submit to their husbands, even if they don't want to, is that forced, ergo rape? If a poor, disempowered woman has sex for money, because she is desperate and sees no choice, even if she does not want to, is that forced sex, ergo rape?

Women face any number of circumstances in which they have limited to no ability to exert countervailing power against a partner's demands for sex, are all of these forced sex, ergo rape?

You're not doing anything but continuing to demonstrate that you're incapable of nuanced thinking on this subject displaying for all to see your naivete, lack of insight into the human condition, lack of empathy, and tendency to frame the issue solely within the constraints of your narrow cultural milieu.

Shouldn't we as a society behave so that we show as directly as possible that such kind of behavior is not OK? Of course, not killing anybody, but a la being vocal saying "you are kind of funny guy" for those who go to vacation in Pattaya to have fun with underage girls and boys; while being a car salesman - not selling a supercar to somebody who comes to a dealership with her 14 year old "wife" etc. Of course, as long as money does not have a smell of a fart, then we can only dream about it.
Also, i guess that most of those who have a belief that women must do what they want while in marriage - they were also raised partially by women. I wonder - at what age they teach to children that "women are not as superior as men" in Saudi Arabia, Yemen etc?

 

[Alfalfa]

There is potentially a human life in that sperm though. Tomato isn't the same. Straw man

I agree about the when is it actually human though.

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LOL. No. Not a strawman. Potential is meaningless. Any atom in the universe has the potential to be part of anything. Aliveness is irrelevant. Status as a human is not.

 

[One Brow]

Who or what is using the uterus without the woman's consent?

In the case of a woman wanting an abortion, the fetus inside of the uterus.

Side question, do you think a fetus is a human being, regardless of legality or policy? When do you personally believe life, human life with rights and worth protecting, begins? Again, without commenting in this context on the women's rights, since it is entirely possible to believe that life begins at conception but that a right to an abortion outweighs that belief.

Human life (as separated from other types of ape life) began a few million years ago, and has been passed along continuously. The sperm and the egg were alive before conception. I think the zygote has rights at the moment of conception, but not rights that supersede the rights of the woman in whom the zygote is created (assuming the zygote is created there), just like any other person.

 

[fishonjazz]

LOL. No. Not a strawman. Potential is meaningless. Any atom in the universe has the potential to be part of anything. Aliveness is irrelevant. Status as a human is not.

You see tomato's (or any atom in the universe) and sperm as having the same or at least similar effect to human life.
I see them as very different in relation to human life.
I'm fine simply agreeing to disagree on this one.

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[silesian]

China isn't socialist.

HaHa. I'll let my Chinese friends know this. They will be very surprised to learn this fact.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Shouldn't we as a society behave so that we show as directly as possible that such kind of behavior is not OK? Of course, not killing anybody, but a la being vocal saying "you are kind of funny guy" for those who go to vacation in Pattaya to have fun with underage girls and boys; while being a car salesman - not selling a supercar to somebody who comes to a dealership with her 14 year old "wife" etc. Of course, as long as money does not have a smell of a fart, then we can only dream about it.
Also, i guess that most of those who have a belief that women must do what they want while in marriage - they were also raised partially by women. I wonder - at what age they teach to children that "women are not as superior as men" in Saudi Arabia, Yemen etc?

Social norms vary considerably throughout the world viz relations between sexes, and even vary considerably within countries. Most countries outside the West have conservative/traditional norms related to relationships among sexes and gender roles. It is more common than less common that these gender norms impose very strict rules governing women's roles and serve to disempower them viz their relationships with men and society in general. Such norms, moreover, are inculcated from birth.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I think he already answered your question a while back with something about life beginning even before conception by way of sperm being life and eggs as well?

Something to that effect.

So essentially you are aborting some form of human life with every act of masturbation lol.
Murderers all of us!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

Wouldn't that make the Porn industry history's greatest facilitator of mass murder?

 

[LogGrad98]

In the case of a woman wanting an abortion, the fetus inside of the uterus.



Human life (as separated from other types of ape life) began a few million years ago, and has been passed along continuously. The sperm and the egg were alive before conception. I think the zygote has rights at the moment of conception, but not rights that supersede the rights of the woman in whom the zygote is created (assuming the zygote is created there), just like any other person.

Interesting. I think, considering that the actions of the woman directly resulted in placing the fetus in her womb against its will, would imply consent to use the womb. She knew what the outcome could be, engaged in the behavior anyway, and created the fetus without its consent, knowing that it would end up in her uterus. I think you could argue that is implied consent, if not explicit consent outright.

On the 2nd part why do the woman's rights, who had a choice in the matter (to have sex or not) supercede the rights of the infant who had no say in the matter, was forced into existence again its will.

Could that be viewed as existential rape?

 

[silesian]

I wouldn't call this socialism. Not every form of gov involvement in economy and other aspects of life equates to some form of socialism. Socialism is a word that if oft-used and oft-used incorrectly. Expect a lot of this to happen in next election cycle in which Repub's strategy is taking shape to try to paint Dems as socialism with AOC being one of their primary boogeymen for this purpose. I'm guessing, in 90%+ of the time, they'll use the term improperly.

Don't you find it ironic that the people bitch about how socialism is the central government controlling the means of production yet are fine giving the government control over intimate and personal matters?

 

[Ron Mexico]

This thread has taught me that more people should have been aborted.

I the abortions should be allowed until kids turn 18 and get the same rights as other adults.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Don't you find it ironic that the people bitch about how socialism is the central government controlling the means of production yet are fine giving the government control over intimate and personal matters?

Yes, it's inconsistent, but one consistent attribute of humans is that we are inconsistent. We tend to argue, not based on firm principle, but on what is convenient for us in the moment. Invoking principles when convenient and abandoning them when inconvenient. Neither side is exempt, most all of us do it. Hypocrisy of the Right is more glaring at the moment since it has abandoned long-voiced principles in its all-out pursuit for power and to insert their collective heads up Trump's arse.

 

[silesian]

Yes, it's inconsistent, but one consistent attribute of humans is that we are inconsistent. We tend to argue, not based on firm principle, but on what is convenient for us in the moment. Invoking principles when convenient and abandoning them when inconvenient. Neither side is exempt, most all of us do it. Hypocrisy of the Right is more glaring at the moment since it has abandoned long-voiced principles in its all-out pursuit for power and to insert their collective heads up Trump's arse.

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. And Agreed.

I'm fiscally conservative but I have given up on the Republican party. Voter suppression, condoned bigotry, xenophobia. The problem is that I have to hold my nose and vote Democratic, despite huge policy disagreements. But I would not be able to live with myself and vote for the compulsively lying narcissist. i have many business executive friends who tell me they know he is totally amoral, but they vote for their economic interests. Despite my juicy tax break that added to my family wealth, I just can't do it. Those who support him will be remembered in history right alongside the pro McCarthy wing.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. And Agreed.

I'm fiscally conservative but I have given up on the Republican party. Voter suppression, condoned bigotry, xenophobia. The problem is that I have to hold my nose and vote Democratic, despite huge policy disagreements. But I would not be able to live with myself and vote for the compulsively lying narcissist. i have many business executive friends who tell me they know he is totally amoral, but they vote for their economic interests. Despite my juicy tax break that added to my family wealth, I just can't do it. Those who support him will be remembered in history right alongside the pro McCarthy wing.

The thing about Trump that I find so interesting is the lack of self-awareness about how history is likely to judge the Trump Administration and those who enabled him. He, and his supporters, are on the wrong side of history, and as the nation regains its collective mind and time passes and the nation is able to put the past into perspective, the Trump Admin will not be recalled as, to put it finely, a high point in US history. He'll be keeping company with, among others, Nixon & Harding as bad/corrupt presidents. I find it so interesting how so few people exhibit any self-awareness about this or exhibit any outward desire to put themselves, and their legacies, on the right side of history.

 

[Stoked]

The thing about Trump that I find so interesting is the lack of self-awareness about how history is likely to judge the Trump Administration and those who enabled him. He, and his supporters, are on the wrong side of history, and as the nation regains its collective mind and time passes and the nation is able to put the past into perspective, the Trump Admin will not be recalled as, to put it finely, a high point in US history. He'll be keeping company with, among others, Nixon & Harding as bad/corrupt presidents. I find it so interesting how so few people exhibit any self-awareness about this or exhibit any outward desire to put themselves, and their legacies, on the right side of history.

Define “regains it’s collective mind”. What I’m seeing from the only other major party is a swing towards the extreme in their own party. Now clearly I’m not trying to compare their speech to Trumps. They are not him that way, thank god. But the policy positions have taken a strong left swing.

I don’t see any return to sanity. I see an aggressive reaction.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Define “regains it’s collective mind”. What I’m seeing from the only other major party is a swing towards the extreme in their own party. Now clearly I’m not trying to compare their speech to Trumps. They are not him that way, thank god. But the policy positions have taken a strong left swing.

I don’t see any return to sanity. I see an aggressive reaction.

This is true if one focuses on what news is reported in social media or what headlines say or pay attention to how Republicans are trying to frame the issues. There's a lot of news about, say, AOC and her allies, but they are a wing of the party and are by no means driving the bus.

There's a lot of noise in the news that can give this impression, but most Democrats who are capable of mounting a serious Presidential campaign (w/ exception of Bernie--God, I wish he'd go away) are far more centrist that the AOC wing. This is a signal vs. noise problem that Republicans, and press (even mainstream) will try to exploit so as to keep the noise at maximum to keep people from missing the signal.

 

[One Brow]

Interesting. I think, considering that the actions of the woman directly resulted in placing the fetus in her womb against its will, would imply consent to use the womb.

If I stab someone in the kidney, that could result in their loss of kidney function. Nonetheless, there is no provision that would force me to donate one of my kidneys in recompense. Legally, we treat the bodies of murderers as sacrosanct, but not women who had sex.

She knew what the outcome could be, engaged in the behavior anyway, and created the fetus without its consent, knowing that it would end up in her uterus. I think you could argue that is implied consent, if not explicit consent outright.

Consent has to be granted to an existing entity. What entity is being granted consent at the time of sex?

On the 2nd part why do the woman's rights, who had a choice in the matter (to have sex or not) supercede the rights of the infant who had no say in the matter, was forced into existence again its will.

They don't. If the fetus does not wish to be connected to the woman's uterus, we should allow the fetus to disconnect itself. The fetus should have the same rights as the woman, the right to be disconnected.

However, I don't think many fetuses will exercise that right.

Could that be viewed as existential rape?

I'm not sure what that phrase is supposed to mean.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

I kill millions of babies everytime I rub one out?

 

[Rubashov]

HaHa. I'll let my Chinese friends know this. They will be very surprised to learn this fact.

Single party state with a capitalist economy, that's fascism.