Competing while allowing Dante Exum to develop

[gregbroncs]

Argh. Seriously? Let me spell it out very simply. We tried Burks at PG. He is a subpar PG. He is a solid to above average to maybe better than that SG. It would be stupid to play him at PG when he is so much better as a SG.

We already tried him at PG. It failed. Why try it again? Isn't that the definition of insanity?

I mostly agree with you. However I don't think Corbin's system uses a PG anywhere near the same as Quin's system. In our current system the PG is not anywhere near as ball dependent as Corbin's and is not really used to set up the offense as much. I worry about Burks' ability to guard PG's more than his ability to be a PG in this system.
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Furthermore I really don't like Burke as our PG and would prefer to try Alec there than keep doing what is not really working that well anyway. So Alec as a backup PG could work in our new system. Though I prefer to just go get a real backup PG somewhere this off season.

 

[karl malone]

OMG! Did you just make a post that was less than 1000 words?

The real question is does it count when the post refers you to another +1000 word post? Either way, this makes it 2 in a row. I'm on a roll.

 

[mrob]

It was Corbin's system. Imagine him in Exum's role. He will hit 3s and he will have his open lanes. He just needs to kick it out sometimes. Something he was improving on.

He would fail just as bad in this system.

1) He's a shoot first player. Great for a sixth man off the bench. Not good at all for a PG with the likes of Hayward and Favors on the floor.

2) He doesn't hit 3's that often.

3) He doesn't need to be PG to get his open lanes. He can just play his normal position for that. The real PG can feed him for those too.

 

[fishonjazz]

1) He's a shoot first player.

That took less shots per game than hayward, trey, and kanter even though he played more minutes than trey and kanter? (Only played less than a minute less than Hayward)

He was passing as much as any player on the team in quins system and shooting less than than any starter except Hayward.

2) He doesn't hit 3's that often.

He was shooting the best 3 point percentage of anyone on the entire team this year when he was playing and attempting a career high per game from 3.

I agree that he should play shooting guard though

 

[mrob]

He was shooting the best 3 point percentage of anyone on the entire team this year when he was playing and attempting a career high per game from 3.

He did look a little better, but I will reserve judgment until I see him do it on more than 68 attempts. If he can come back and maintain that percentage on 150-200 attempts, I may change my opinion of his 3-point shooting.

 

[Hekate]

I don't get it. It's not like Exum is playing like a PG, he is just listed one. Burks can't just play worse than Exum on offense and with Rudy and Fave down low, offense would be better than defense at PG position.

 

[gregbroncs]

I don't get it. It's not like Exum is playing like a PG, he is just listed one. Burks can't just play worse than Exum on offense and with Rudy and Fave down low, offense would be better than defense at PG position.

I disagree about offense being better than defense at PG. Some of the best players in the league are PG's and run the PNR. Being able to guard that has been a key element to the rise of our defense.

 

[mrob]

I don't get it. It's not like Exum is playing like a PG, he is just listed one. Burks can't just play worse than Exum on offense and with Rudy and Fave down low, offense would be better than defense at PG position.

What do you mean he doesn't play like a PG? He plays exactly like a PG ... sometimes to a fault.

Burks on the other hand is always looking for his shot. I don't blame him for that. It's his style of play. But it would break down our offense to have him as PG. Someone on the floor needs to run the offense and be looking to pass first.

Also, who cares if Exum isn't great on offense at this point. Hayward is our primary scorer with Faves becoming more and more of a scorer as well in the post. Exum will get better at playing point and at scoring as time goes on. We don't need him to score and if/when he gets better, it will just make the offense flow even that much better.

Burks would be horrible as our PG. He's not good at that role and by trying to force him to, he would be come less effective at what he is good at.

I still haven't heard a good argument why we shouldn't let Exum develop. So he isn't Chris Paul ... why do we need him to be?

 

[Hekate]

What do you mean he doesn't play like a PG? He plays exactly like a PG ... sometimes to a fault.

Burks on the other hand is always looking for his shot. I don't blame him for that. It's his style of play. But it would break down our offense to have him as PG. Someone on the floor needs to run the offense and be looking to pass first.

Also, who cares if Exum isn't great on offense at this point. Hayward is our primary scorer with Faves becoming more and more of a scorer as well in the post. Exum will get better at playing point and at scoring as time goes on. We don't need him to score and if/when he gets better, it will just make the offense flow even that much better.

Burks would be horrible as our PG. He's not good at that role and by trying to force him to, he would be come less effective at what he is good at.

I still haven't heard a good argument why we shouldn't let Exum develop. So he isn't Chris Paul ... why do we need him to be?

All he does is camp in the corner. Almost no penetration and when he penetrates, it's almost always a pass. It's predictable. Exum plays like he is a 3pt specialist and he is a below average shooter.

It is either Hayward or Ingles whos sets the offense. We will still have Hayward running the team and Burks will probably be the secondary ballhandler. By benching Exum we are not throwing him away. I can even argue it could be better for him. Exum can have more responsibility and less guys he can defer to in second unit.

And Burks is not some chucker. He has some trouble kicking the ball out and may break some plays but he is in no way selfish. He was just getting used to system before he got injured.

 

[Ron Mexico]

All he does is camp in the corner. Almost no penetration and when he penetrates, it's almost always a pass. It's predictable. Exum plays like he is a 3pt specialist and he is a below average shooter.

It is either Hayward or Ingles whos sets the offense. We will still have Hayward running the team and Burks will probably be the secondary ballhandler. By benching Exum we are not throwing him away. I can even argue it could be better for him. Exum can have more responsibility and less guys he can defer to in second unit.

And Burks is not some chucker. He has some trouble kicking the ball out and may break some plays but he is in no way selfish. He was just getting used to system before he got injured.

PGs are supposed to pass to open people and Exum has been an above average shooter from three this month.

In addition Exum is a major reason why our defense is so good right now. He is doing a good job this month of spacing us out on offense (he is hitting his threes) driving and dishing when he gets chased off the three. Exum also runs the offense well, he gets it set up fast and runs the plays. He gets the ball into playmakers hands like Hayward. I am not opposed to Burks playing the back up PG or even starting SG but I dont think he makes this team better as a starting PG. He is not better than Hayward and would need to take the ball out of his hands at PG to be effective.

 

[Sidebottom2beams]

I don't get it. It's not like Exum is playing like a PG, he is just listed one. Burks can't just play worse than Exum on offense and with Rudy and Fave down low, offense would be better than defense at PG position.

Then you may as well start Trey Burke.
But since the all star break Exum has a off rating of 103 and a def rating of 88 so he must be doing something right. That does not include his +23 game last night.

 

[Hekate]

I don't believe Quin's system has PGs. I think If Burks comes and doesn't stop the flow of the game, he should start. I thought he was improving in that aspect of his game before he got injured. I also don't think he has traditional PG skills.

 

[karl malone]

Been giving more thought on a SG, who could potentially start for us next year, as well as capably (more so than AB at least) backup Exum at the point. One FA name that intrigues me, & (as far as I know) hasn't been discussed very much on this board, is Louis Williams of Toronto, who has actually spent a year with QS on 2 separate occasions (PHI in 2010-2011 & ATL in 2013-2014). He is a capable scorer who is 28 years old & currently having one of the best seasons of his career (averaging 22.1 PTS/2.8 AST per 36 minutes, shooting .333 from 3pt, & putting up a solid PER of 19.8). Although his per 36 of 2.8 AST this year may not imply that he would make a suitable backup PG option, he has spent 96% of his playing time at SG this season, compared to his career split of 71%(PG)/29%(SG). Also, his career per 36 of 4.7 AST suggests that he is at least an adequate passer, still capable of handling back up PG duties (not to mention the -per 36- 5.2 AST #'s he put up in his most recent season with QS in ATL last year- in which 84% of his time on the court was spent as a PG).

He may not be the big name FA that most of us are hoping for this off-season, or the knockdown 3pt shooter that we need (career .340%), but he may be the best fit of the (realistic) FA options that are out there. I have no idea what type of financial commitment he would require or how much of a priority re-signing him will be for TOR, but I think he could really add some much needed offense to our team. To be honest, I am not familiar enough with his defensive ability to comment on the affect that he would have on what has become the staple of this team (although surrounding him with DE, GH, DF, & RG should certainly mitigate any negative impact he could potentially have on the defensive end).

PG Exum/L.Williams/Neto(?)
SG L.Williams/Burks/E.Millsap
SF Hayward/Hood/Ingles
PF Favors/Booker/Evans(?)
C Gobert/?

Who knows if any of Neto/Tomic/Pleiss come over next year, or if Evans re-signs with us or if Trey Burke remains with the team. We could also keep TB as the backup PG if we wanted, tho if AB is to serve as our 6th man, which I think is clearly the role he is best suited for, I'm not sure having 2 ball dominant players in the 2nd unit is the way to go. This would also give us the flexibility necessary to go BPA (or possibly trade up using Burke/picks), depending on how the draft shakes out, who comes over (or doesn't), who re-signs (or doesn't), who is traded (or isnt), etc. Either way, it's something to consider, at the very least, & I still like our odds of competing next year, so long as we use our resources wisely & make a solid addition or 2 to complement what has been rapidly building here in Utah.

 

[Jazz4ever]

All he does is camp in the corner. Almost no penetration and when he penetrates, it's almost always a pass. It's predictable. Exum plays like he is a 3pt specialist and he is a below average shooter.

It is either Hayward or Ingles whos sets the offense. We will still have Hayward running the team and Burks will probably be the secondary ballhandler. By benching Exum we are not throwing him away. I can even argue it could be better for him. Exum can have more responsibility and less guys he can defer to in second unit.

And Burks is not some chucker. He has some trouble kicking the ball out and may break some plays but he is in no way selfish. He was just getting used to system before he got injured.

Burks simply doesn't have the IQ, awareness, or patience to play PG. You must have been in a coma two years ago. You don't see New Orleans using Tyreke Evans at PG even though he is 6'5" and a way better driver than Holiday. There is 0% chance the Jazz ever revisit Burks at PG, and you know it, so why the argument??

 

[green]

Been giving more thought on a SG, who could potentially start for us next year, as well as capably (more so than AB at least) backup Exum at the point. One FA name that intrigues me, & (as far as I know) hasn't been discussed very much on this board, is Louis Williams of Toronto, who has actually spent a year with QS on 2 separate occasions (PHI in 2010-2011 & ATL in 2013-2014). He is a capable scorer who is 28 years old & currently having one of the best seasons of his career (averaging 22.1 PTS/2.8 AST per 36 minutes, shooting .333 from 3pt, & putting up a solid PER of 19.8). Although his per 36 of 2.8 AST this year may not imply that he would make a suitable backup PG option, he has spent 96% of his playing time at SG this season, compared to his career split of 71%(PG)/29%(SG). Also, his career per 36 of 4.7 AST suggests that he is at least an adequate passer, still capable of handling back up PG duties (not to mention the -per 36- 5.2 AST #'s he put up in his most recent season with QS in ATL last year- in which 84% of his time on the court was spent as a PG).

He may not be the big name FA that most of us are hoping for this off-season, or the knockdown 3pt shooter that we need (career .340%), but he may be the best fit of the (realistic) FA options that are out there. I have no idea what type of financial commitment he would require or how much of a priority re-signing him will be for TOR, but I think he could really add some much needed offense to our team. To be honest, I am not familiar enough with his defensive ability to comment on the affect that he would have on what has become the staple of this team (although surrounding him with DE, GH, DF, & RG should certainly mitigate any negative impact he could potentially have on the defensive end).

PG Exum/L.Williams/Neto(?)
SG L.Williams/Burks/E.Millsap
SF Hayward/Hood/Ingles
PF Favors/Booker/Evans(?)
C Gobert/?

Who knows if any of Neto/Tomic/Pleiss come over next year, or if Evans re-signs with us or if Trey Burke remains with the team. We could also keep TB as the backup PG if we wanted, tho if AB is to serve as our 6th man, which I think is clearly the role he is best suited for, I'm not sure having 2 ball dominant players in the 2nd unit is the way to go. This would also give us the flexibility necessary to go BPA (or possibly trade up using Burke/picks), depending on how the draft shakes out, who comes over (or doesn't), who re-signs (or doesn't), who is traded (or isnt), etc. Either way, it's something to consider, at the very least, & I still like our odds of competing next year, so long as we use our resources wisely & make a solid addition or 2 to complement what has been rapidly building here in Utah.

Lou Williams is who the Jazz hope Burke turns into. Soooooo, they may or may not want Lou Williams, but they know who he is, and hope Burke can become him.