Conley Contract = DEATHBLOW

[D Will Texas]

Im upset.

Jazz should have let Conley walk last offseason and had a fresh start with a different free agent. That money woulda gone a long way.

I get it , not many free agents are lining up at the door to sign in Utah , but still …

Who pays an aging, midget point guard with a push shot ? This contract could single handedly force our rebuild earlier than expected.

 

[Jingled]

They used Conley's bird rights to re-sign him. They were over the salary cap so even if they didn't re-sign him, they would've had no cap space to replace him.

 

[mongoose01]

Trading for Conman was the death blow not re-signing him.


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[jom2003]

Trading for Conman was the death blow not re-signing him.


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this. when the trade happened in 2019, it was basically an all-in move meaning we were left with no choice but to bring him back last summer. letting him walk would only have made us worse. so the issue was really on trading for him, not re-signing him.

 

[Brsn]

Because he had a bad game? It happens. I literally penciled in this game as a loss before we played it. A B2B against a good Dallas team in their arena. I'm surprised it finished as close as it did. Conely isn't the flashiest player but he runs the floor so well. As well he saved us from a loss in Houston a few days ago.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Because he had a bad game? It happens. I literally penciled in this game as a loss before we played it. A B2B against a good Dallas team in their arena. I'm surprised it finished as close as it did. Conely isn't the flashiest player but he runs the floor so well. As well he saved us from a loss in Houston a few days ago.

Everyone plays better with Conley on the floor. He needs to be better individually, but I trust he will be ready come playoff time if an injury isn't keeping him out

 

[fallenchicken]

I think Conley is really good for us. Not the problem on this team at all. There might be a problem related to Conley, but it's not his fault. Most great teams have three guys. Three stars. They don't all have to be super stars. But three Blue Chippers. After Mitchell we don't have any other pure, elite blue-chip players. We do have Gobert, who is a star, or at least half of one (paid like he is one of the best players in the league) a great player, but he's a limited star, and he's easily countered and made less effective. He certainly isn't a player who can go out and get you a basket when it's clutch time in a big playoff game. Not really his fault. He's just not that type of player.

After Gobert we have two guys who are in the tier below star: Bogey, and Conley. Neither of them are stars, but they are both pretty good. The gamble the Jazz made was that Mitchell and Gobert could be stars, we could find a way to keep Gobert effective in the playoffs, and that Conley+Bogey, two-half stars, could combine and equal a whole star. I'm not saying it can't happen. But both Conley and Bogey have to be huge for us in the post season. So we really need Conley to be in good shape in a couple months.

 

[jom2003]

I think Conley is really good for us. Not the problem on this team at all. There might be a problem related to Conley, but it's not his fault. Most great teams have three guys. Three stars. They don't all have to be super stars. But three Blue Chippers. After Mitchell we don't have any other pure, elite blue-chip players. We do have Gobert, who is a star, or at least half of one (paid like he is one of the best players in the league) a great player, but he's a limited star, and he's easily countered and made less effective. He certainly isn't a player who can go out and get you a basket when it's clutch time in a big playoff game. Not really his fault. He's just not that type of player.

After Gobert we have two guys who are in the tier below star: Bogey, and Conley. Neither of them are stars, but they are both pretty good. The gamble the Jazz made was that Mitchell and Gobert could be stars, we could find a way to keep Gobert effective in the playoffs, and that Conley+Bogey, two-half stars, could combine and equal a whole star. I'm not saying it can't happen. But both Conley and Bogey have to be huge for us in the post season. So we really need Conley to be in good shape in a couple months.

Conley and Boegy are not "half stars" or "0.5 stars". They are just "starters" that all the good teams have.

Like Tyrese Maxey, Bobby Portis, Mikal Bridges or Marcus Morris. Same level production but I doubt their fans would ever call these guys their "half stars". See what the issue is here? None of these guys cost their teams nearly as much as Conley. You grab these guys either through a good draft pick or low end FA acqusitions(Portis was signed by the Bucks for a min because he couldn't get any exciting offer). We spent Chris Paul level assets to get Conley but he's not giving us Chris Paul level productions.

The gamble the Jazz made really wasn't for Mithchell and Gobert to be the two stars, it was made for Conley to be that third star and it clearly didn't work out. The matter was made worse by the fact that two bona fide stars Jrue Holiday and Chris Paul became available exactly one summer after the Jazz fired their shot. Both Mitchell and Rudy had multiple years left on their contracts and were still relatively young in their careers. So there was no reason for the Jazz to go all in during summer 2019 at all.

You know what the irony is? There were two point guard targets that DL were chasing in 2018/2019, one was Conley and the other one was Jeff Teague. There were even multiple threads here comparing the two point guards. Imagine what'd happen to this team had he gotten Teague.

So I guess Conley's trade really wasn't bad. It could've been way worse(Teague). But it's definitely not the one we would've done it again

 

[LoPo]

I considered and still consider the Conley deal a failure because we gave up way too much for him. Assets and cap space.

- We should have never given up Jae in the deal. We should have made Memphis take Favors.
- We should have never given up 2 first rounders in the deal. We should have made Memphis take multiple 2nds instead.

If you go back and look at what teams were in the $35 million-a-year PG market at that time, it was a very tiny list. Not only was the market tiny, no other team could offer what we ended up giving. So we paid top dollar for a guy not many teams were after.

Just a really bad deal for us that has looked even worse with all the time he has missed in the postseason. Maybe we pull a miracle this postseason, but this trade has been dreadful up until now.

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[jope]

Because he had a bad game? It happens. I literally penciled in this game as a loss before we played it. A B2B against a good Dallas team in their arena. I'm surprised it finished as close as it did. Conely isn't the flashiest player but he runs the floor so well. As well he saved us from a loss in Houston a few days ago.

To be fair, individually, he’s been struggling much more than one bad game. In the Jazz’s last 10 games, Mike is averaging 8/5/3 on 30%/29% shooting.

 

[jom2003]

To be fair, individually, he’s been struggling much more than one bad game. In the Jazz’s last 10 games, Mike is averaging 8/5/3 on 30%/29% shooting.

He's on Jeff Teague trajectory. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets bought out then sign a minimum deal with the Nets or Bucks in a year or two.

 

[homeytennis]

Funny you should mention Teague, he is now scouting for the Hawks. He was going to need surgery to play again and he decided against it. Hoopsrumors has a story on him today.

 

[jom2003]

Funny you should mention Teague, he is now scouting for the Hawks. He was going to need surgery to play again and he decided against it. Hoopsrumors has a story on him today.

Teague's actually seven months younger than Conley. he's just doing what players of his age would normally do. phase out and become a role player/journeyman. Im sure Memphis has a role reserved for Mike when that time comes as well.

What Karl did in his age 34/35 season was not normal.

 

[Brsn]

To be fair, individually, he’s been struggling much more than one bad game. In the Jazz’s last 10 games, Mike is averaging 8/5/3 on 30%/29% shooting.

To be fair it was really only two or three games that brought those stats down. Two of those being the Mavs game and Pelicans. The Pelicans game was a disaster all around. As well I see the impact of players like him and Rudy that don't show up in the stat sheets.

 

[jom2003]

To be fair it was really only two or three games that brought those stats down. Two of those being the Mavs game and Pelicans. The Pelicans game was a disaster all around. As well I see the impact of players like him and Rudy that don't show up in the stat sheets.

To be fair, impact wise he's basically non-existence. Both from stat sheet and from the eye test.

The +/- of him on the floor over his last ten games:
-1
-5
+18
-25
-6
-15
-4
-17
-8

The Jazz were 7-3 during those 10 games so most players have pretty good pluses over this stretch. He's been struggling and there's just no argument against that.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Teague's actually seven months younger than Conley. he's just doing what players of his age would normally do. phase out and become a role player/journeyman. Im sure Memphis has a role reserved for Mike when that time comes as well.

What Karl did in his age 34/35 season was not normal.

If Teague could shoot like Mike he’d still likely be in the league.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think we kind of wore him out or he is nursing a nagging injury. He may be playing at 75% so as not to get hurt. Just him being out there provides gravity and helps us stay organized.

I’d respect the decision to rest him for a couple few weeks right now. I’m not convinced we actually get to the 2/3 seed. Maybe rest Rudy some as well… the calf injury is scary. I don’t know that there is a monumental difference between being a 3 seed or a 6 seed. Every team is kinda dangerous and kind of flawed…

 

[infection]

 

[gomretat]

Trading for Conman was the death blow not re-signing him.


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The only way I would know that is if I knew what the other options were. It was a roll of the dice like many if not most trades and draft picks. The fact that things dont work our with a title doesnt mean to me that it was the wrong trade or the wrong draft pick. There are plenty of situations in life where we roll the dice and it doesnt work but it was better than sitting on your hands.

 

[LoPo]

The only way I would know that is if I knew what the other options were. It was a roll of the dice like many if not most trades and draft picks. The fact that things dont work our with a title doesnt mean to me that it was the wrong trade or the wrong draft pick. There are plenty of situations in life where we roll the dice and it doesnt work but it was better than sitting on your hands.

We could have just replaced Favors with Bojan, resigned Rubio and ran it back. Many of us were saying that replacing Favors with a floor spacer would have solved a lot of issues we faced against Houston.

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