Conley Contract = DEATHBLOW

[Isaiah 1:13]

Revisiting that trade, yeah I'd say that we definitely overpaid. I mean when you consider that McCollum is on the same kind of deal and that they are similar tier players, I'd say we gave up waaay too much. And as LoPo details in his post above, there was really not a lot of reason to give up so much as we weren't really in a bidding war or anything. And with Memphis having Ja Morant in their crosshairs, they had to be more motivated than they let on. I mean two of the three players we traded for Conley are now starters for the two teams that made it to the NBA finals last year, and along with two firsts, are you crazy? Whereas New Orleans gave up Hart, Satoransky, NAW and Louzada? for McCollum, Nance and Snell one protected first and two seconds. And look at the impact that McCollum has had in his first season compared to what Conley gave us. (Wish Conley had McCollum's floater.)

It's not like it's a total fail or anything, I can think of trades that ended up worse for sure. I do consider Conley to be the best passer on the team and particularly with Ingles gone, the guy that best gets Gobert involved. But that's offset by his lack of size, his inconsistency and most importantly his load management status right from the gitgo thanks to that recurring hammy. I think we could have gotten a lot more for less. Who doesn't feel as though DRuss would have been more impactful for us? Or Jrue Holiday? Hell, George Hill on a second stint may have been close. But yeah I suppose we could have swung and missed with Teague as well.

The development of Trent Forrest should alleviate some of the woes we've had in the past when Conley has been exploited defensively for being too short and too light in the ***. We had to resign him obviously and he can be really good offensively when he's flowing. Let's just hope he gets hot going into the playoffs and turns into that special All Star player that we've all seen flashes of!

 

[Gameface]

Trading for Conman was the death blow not re-signing him.


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The old modify a word or name to insert a subtle insult. So clever, I wonder why most of us move past that sort of thing after elementary school?

 

[LogGrad98]

The old modify a word or name to insert a subtle insult. So clever, I wonder why most of us move past that sort of thing after elementary school?

You would know, GameFART.

 

[jom2003]

Revisiting that trade, yeah I'd say that we definitely overpaid. I mean when you consider that McCollum is on the same kind of deal and that they are similar tier players, I'd say we gave up waaay too much. And as LoPo details in his post above, there was really not a lot of reason to give up so much as we weren't really in a bidding war or anything. And with Memphis having Ja Morant in their crosshairs, they had to be more motivated than they let on. I mean two of the three players we traded for Conley are now starters for the two teams that made it to the NBA finals last year, and along with two firsts, are you crazy? Whereas New Orleans gave up Hart, Satoransky, NAW and Louzada? for McCollum, Nance and Snell one protected first and two seconds. And look at the impact that McCollum has had in his first season compared to what Conley gave us. (Wish Conley had McCollum's floater.)

It's not like it's a total fail or anything, I can think of trades that ended up worse for sure. I do consider Conley to be the best passer on the team and particularly with Ingles gone, the guy that best gets Gobert involved. But that's offset by his lack of size, his inconsistency and most importantly his load management status right from the gitgo thanks to that recurring hammy. I think we could have gotten a lot more for less. Who doesn't feel as though DRuss would have been more impactful for us? Or Jrue Holiday? Hell, George Hill on a second stint may have been close. But yeah I suppose we could have swung and missed with Teague as well.

The development of Trent Forrest should alleviate some of the woes we've had in the past when Conley has been exploited defensively for being too short and too light in the ***. We had to resign him obviously and he can be really good offensively when he's flowing. Let's just hope he gets hot going into the playoffs and turns into that special All Star player that we've all seen flashes of!

CJ's actually a better fit than Conley. Not as good of a passer but Conley's passing/playmaking are overrated anyways as he's never managed to average more than 6.5 assist a game. CJ's shot creation and iso ability would've made our offense rely much less on spacing and pick n roll, thus creating an effective counter against small ball lineup/switch defense.

 

[jom2003]

We could have just replaced Favors with Bojan, resigned Rubio and ran it back. Many of us were saying that replacing Favors with a floor spacer would have solved a lot of issues we faced against Houston.

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keeping Rubio would've kept us in contention for CP3 in 2020. and CP3 is everything that some people here seriously thought Conley would be, which is mind-boggling to say the least.

 

[LogGrad98]

keeping Rubio would've kept us in contention for CP3 in 2020. and CP3 is everything that some people here seriously thought Conley would be, which is mind-boggling to say the least.

The idea of Conley is far better than the reality of Conley. We have seen that a lot in this league.

 

[mongoose01]

The old modify a word or name to insert a subtle insult. So clever, I wonder why most of us move past that sort of thing after elementary school?

I imagine it’s for the same reason we move past calling people childish… I didn’t realize Russel Westbrook had a burner on jazzfans.


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[jom2003]

The idea of Conley is far better than the reality of Conley. We have seen that a lot in this league.

i mean it's not like Conley was some kind of mysterious creature that no one knows about. you'd pick CP3 over Conley any day and it's not even remotely close

 

[Gameface]

I imagine it’s for the same reason we move past calling people childish… I didn’t realize Russel Westbrook had a burner on jazzfans.


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Conley didn't con anyone and he isn't playing poorly on purpose. You're little attack on him was lame as ****. The point might be valid, that trading for him in the first place without first consulting the crystal ball of basketball fortune was the mistake, but it isn't like Conley played a trick on us.

 

[jom2003]

The only way I would know that is if I knew what the other options were. It was a roll of the dice like many if not most trades and draft picks. The fact that things dont work our with a title doesnt mean to me that it was the wrong trade or the wrong draft pick. There are plenty of situations in life where we roll the dice and it doesnt work but it was better than sitting on your hands.

I mean let's think the opposite. Why was it so necessary for the Jazz to roll the dice in 2019? Were Rudy or DM's contracts set to expire? Were they approaching the end of their prime? Did any of the Jazz's key members from coaches to players tell the FO "let's start contend this year or I walk"?

What was the worst it could happen to the Jazz if they didn't roll the dice in summer 2019 and instead, chose to stand pat for one more season for better options to become available, you know, guys like one of the best point guards ever or the all-star PG who immediately helped his team win a championship in that season?

 

[mongoose01]

Conley didn't con anyone and he isn't playing poorly on purpose. You're little attack on him was lame as ****. The point might be valid, that trading for him in the first place without first consulting the crystal ball of basketball fortune was the mistake, but it isn't like Conley played a trick on us.

I have some more clever ones like Mistake Mike, or multimillion dollar mistake Mike, mediocre mike, midget mike, my hammy hurts mike. Admittedly some are better then others, but you get the idea. No need to consult a crystal ball I was calling it a mistake since day one, as was anyone with half a brain.


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[One Brow]

I was calling it a mistake since day one, as was anyone with half a brain.

This is why I prefer posters with complete brains.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

CJ's actually a better fit than Conley. Not as good of a passer but Conley's passing/playmaking are overrated anyways as he's never managed to average more than 6.5 assist a game. CJ's shot creation and iso ability would've made our offense rely much less on spacing and pick n roll, thus creating an effective counter against small ball lineup/switch defense.

Interesting analysis and my gut take is that you’re right. I’ve always been a huge McCollum admirer and thought him better than Lillard. McCollum’s not the reason for Portland’s collapse IMO.

 

[latin jazz]

Conley is fine. The biggest mistakes happened two years ago when we drafted Dok instead of Bane and then acquired Favors for the full mid-level and a year later had to use a 1st to dump him. Had we kept that 1st rounder, we would probably been able to upgrade the frontcourt this year with a player like Grant. I'm still scratching my head for the moves that summer and wasting roster spots, 2nd rounders for guys like Tucker, Matty Ice. It was DL at his worst.

 

[latin jazz]

To be fair, impact wise he's basically non-existence. Both from stat sheet and from the eye test.

The +/- of him on the floor over his last ten games:
-1
-5
+18
-25
-6
-15
-4
-17
-8

The Jazz were 7-3 during those 10 games so most players have pretty good pluses over this stretch. He's been struggling and there's just no argument against that.

Well, Rudy has been negative too in 6 out of his last 8. And since both play together a lot, their +/- tend to be similar (worth noting Conley didn't play against OKC, when Rudy had +26)

Rudy's +/-
+19
-27
-5
-15
-12
-19
+26
-4

So while I'm not denying Conley has struggled a bit in the last few games, it's wrong to say "most players have pretty good pluses over this stretch", as demostrated above. Furthermore, using only +/- to gauge individual perfomance is pretty weak.

 

[mongoose01]

Well, Rudy has been negative too in 6 out of his last 8. And since both play together a lot, their +/- tend to be similar (worth noting Conley didn't play against OKC, when Rudy had +26)

Rudy's +/-
+19
-27
-5
-15
-12
-19
+26
-4

So while I'm not denying Conley has struggled a bit in the last few games, it's wrong to say "most players have pretty good pluses over this stretch", as demostrated above. Furthermore, using only +/- to gauge individual perfomance is pretty weak.

So Conleys dragging down Gobert?


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[jom2003]

Well, Rudy has been negative too in 6 out of his last 8. And since both play together a lot, their +/- tend to be similar (worth noting Conley didn't play against OKC, when Rudy had +26)

Rudy's +/-
+19
-27
-5
-15
-12
-19
+26
-4

So while I'm not denying Conley has struggled a bit in the last few games, it's wrong to say "most players have pretty good pluses over this stretch", as demostrated above. Furthermore, using only +/- to gauge individual perfomance is pretty weak.

Yeah but Rudy didn't do so while averaging 8pts on 30% shooting. Went 1/5 tonight against G league scrubs.

Look, nobody here is ONLY using +/- to gauge individual performance.

Why do I need to post his other stats when Jope already done that like twenty posts ago.

 

[latin jazz]

Yeah but Rudy didn't do so while averaging 8pts on 30% shooting. Went 1/5 tonight against G league scrubs.

Look, nobody here is ONLY using +/- to gauge individual performance.

Why do I need to post his other stats when Jope already done that like twenty posts ago.

If you read my post carefully, I'm not denying Conley is struggling but your false claim that nobody on the team is having a crappy +/- during the same stretch. You oftentimes make absolute claims based on dubious use of stats. Another example: saying Conley's playmaking/passing is overrated because he doesn't average more than 6 assists per game (nobody does in our system but is obvious to everyone that he is a pretty good passer and high IQ player). In this regard, you tend to use simple stats or numbers to make bold claims. More than two years ago you said he couldn't shoot off the ball and adjust to our system because he averaged X attempts per game in the past, that he couldn't shoot (nor pass, defend, rebound, score, playmake or that he was washed up because of his fg%, while ignoring his impact in other aspects of the game ("a washed up midget who couldn't shoot, score, defend, pass, rebound, playmake"...who happen to have an all-star caliber season right after). Another one: "nobody here is ONLY using +/-". You were, by trying to make a point about the undeniability of Conley's poor perfomance in his last 10 games. People is not arguing against his struggles recently, but that stat is not reliable in his case. Even in today's game both him and Rudy had +24 and +25. Apologies in advance if I don't reply anymore but I'm barely checking or engaging in JFC nowadays.

 

[latin jazz]

So Conleys dragging down Gobert?


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Or Mike rough shooting stretch is combined with other players from the bench being very inconsistent (Gay and JC), plus Rudy maybe not being as dominant after coming back from injury. Overall, Rudy and Mike play well together.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

Or Mike rough shooting stretch is combined with other players from the bench being very inconsistent (Gay and JC), plus Rudy maybe not being as dominant after coming back from injury. Overall, Rudy and Mike play well together.

I call BS! Gay has been very consistent. Consistently bad!