jason_guan
Banned
If corbin doesn't get the jazz into the playoff in this coming season, he will end up like the CEO of the mens warehouse...
corbin: you are fired, I gurantee it if ...
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Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what to think to be honest. I like Ty Corbin, but I think that he's in over his head as a Head Coach. I think that he makes a fine Assistant Coach.
I firmly believe that every GM should hire "his guy" to run a team. Ty Corbin isn't Dennis Lindsey's "guy". He was the guy who filled in when Sloan stepped away. I feel like there's better candidates out there. Ty Corbin won't be judged on how many games they win this year, but by how well he develops the young guys. Since he's proven that he's not a great developmental coach, I don't think it will be a good season for him at all.
I think he will not get fired, per se, but he won't be brought back either. I'd like to see the Jazz find a guy who can build a strong defensive team with an eye towards analytics on offense. DL seems like the kind of GM who would value those skills in a coach. I just don't see Ty Corbin as being that guy.
I firmly believe that every GM should hire "his guy" to run a team. Ty Corbin isn't Dennis Lindsey's "guy". He was the guy who filled in when Sloan stepped away. I feel like there's better candidates out there. Ty Corbin won't be judged on how many games they win this year, but by how well he develops the young guys. Since he's proven that he's not a great developmental coach, I don't think it will be a good season for him at all.
I think he will not get fired, per se, but he won't be brought back either. I'd like to see the Jazz find a guy who can build a strong defensive team with an eye towards analytics on offense. DL seems like the kind of GM who would value those skills in a coach. I just don't see Ty Corbin as being that guy.
CALJAZZFAN
Well-Known Member
I couldn't agree more. I like the fact that the Jazz gave him a shot, but he's underwhelmed. At some point the Jazz have to realize that stability at the cost of losing is stupid. Stability is great when you're winning, but doesn't make much sense when change is needed. I hope he proves me wrong this year, but nothing I have seen so far makes me think that he will. I can't think of anything good to say except that he seems like a nice guy. Doesn't seem to be a genius on offense or defense and doesn't seem to be special at anything and I don't see anything that makes me think that he's improving as a head coach. If I saw improvement and potential, I'd be more optimistic.
I wish they would have handed the reigns to Horny this year. I could be wrong, but I think he's going to be a good coach.
I'm sure he would just go back to being an assistant coach in the NBA. He is pretty well respected since he has the training and praise of Jerry Sloan. He might not be HC material when it's all said and done, but I doubt he has trouble finding another job in the NBA.
CALJAZZFAN
Well-Known Member
Agreed. He's a stellar assistant coach.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
The question then becomes. . . "Who do you hire to replace him?"
That's a little bit more difficult than just saying "Replace him."
Five guys who should have been on Dennis Lindsey's short list all got head coaching jobs this year.
1. Brad Stevens, 2. Jeff Hornacek, 3. Brian Shaw, 4. Mike Budenholzer and 5. Brett Brown all seem like the type of up-and-coming hire that Dennis Lindsey could have brought in to develop the young guys.
My guess is that Ty Corbin does his best to make the most out of the young guys, but that this will be a throw-away year for the organization. It will be easy to let his contract expire and then go out and get a new coach to bring a "change of direction" for the young roster after the season ends. The question is who that new guy should be.
That's a little bit more difficult than just saying "Replace him."
Five guys who should have been on Dennis Lindsey's short list all got head coaching jobs this year.
1. Brad Stevens, 2. Jeff Hornacek, 3. Brian Shaw, 4. Mike Budenholzer and 5. Brett Brown all seem like the type of up-and-coming hire that Dennis Lindsey could have brought in to develop the young guys.
My guess is that Ty Corbin does his best to make the most out of the young guys, but that this will be a throw-away year for the organization. It will be easy to let his contract expire and then go out and get a new coach to bring a "change of direction" for the young roster after the season ends. The question is who that new guy should be.
Corbin is in a no win situation. If he loses too many games he's incompetent. If he wins too many games and makes the playoffs by playing the young guys then people like me will blast him for not playing the young guys last year. Corbin has to lose just the right amount of games to keep his job. The problem is that if we are going to lose and not make the playoffs most people would rather tank completely and go for Wiggins or another top pick. Corbin is really in a no win situation. Hes dammed if he win or loses too many games and winning just enough to keep your job means we lose out on the top6 picks next year.
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Litany
Well-Known Member
I've never been impressed with Corbin. I dont know that he excels at anything. Having said that I was willing to give him a shot for a while.
Then the famous "I thought the veterans got us off to a good start. Randy Mo and Marv really set the tone." After they were complete garbage and the young guys saved the game. After that I withdrew any ounce of support I had for him. He's not good at anything and bad at a lot. Fire him after the season please.
Then the famous "I thought the veterans got us off to a good start. Randy Mo and Marv really set the tone." After they were complete garbage and the young guys saved the game. After that I withdrew any ounce of support I had for him. He's not good at anything and bad at a lot. Fire him after the season please.
criteria
I would respectfully disagree. Key facts:
1. Lindsey is in control
2. Lindsey is an uber-analyst who is hiring other uber-analysts
3. Lindsey will be evaluating Corbin -- quantitatively -- on his coaching decisions
4. There will be two criteria for Corbin's success:
...... first, Corbin must make sound decisions about substitutions, gametime playcalling and other tactical decisions, and player minutes (where his marching orders will be crystal clear). His performance here MUST improve or he will be gone
.......second, Corbin must have a better command of the team and respect of the players. He is too nice a guy and he needs to make tough decisions on who gets time and be firm when needed. The type of subversive behavour from vets you would not see tolerated in a similar manner under Rivers, Jackson, Sloan or Pop. Guys mouth off, sure, but top coaches COMMAND RESPECT. Corbin has not shown the stature to command player respect, and his deer-in-headlights expressions, lack of confidence, and lack of gravitas hurt him. Sloan would say "you want playing time, earn it." Corbin wrings his hands, equivocates and is indecisive.
If he can fix these two things, he'll be Kev's guy. Personally, I think he's got this year to prove it or he's back to being an assistant. Personally, I think he will be gone after this year, and it will have NOTHING, ZERO, NADA to do with wins and losses, but rather about who is best to lead the young team.
I would respectfully disagree. Key facts:
1. Lindsey is in control
2. Lindsey is an uber-analyst who is hiring other uber-analysts
3. Lindsey will be evaluating Corbin -- quantitatively -- on his coaching decisions
4. There will be two criteria for Corbin's success:
...... first, Corbin must make sound decisions about substitutions, gametime playcalling and other tactical decisions, and player minutes (where his marching orders will be crystal clear). His performance here MUST improve or he will be gone
.......second, Corbin must have a better command of the team and respect of the players. He is too nice a guy and he needs to make tough decisions on who gets time and be firm when needed. The type of subversive behavour from vets you would not see tolerated in a similar manner under Rivers, Jackson, Sloan or Pop. Guys mouth off, sure, but top coaches COMMAND RESPECT. Corbin has not shown the stature to command player respect, and his deer-in-headlights expressions, lack of confidence, and lack of gravitas hurt him. Sloan would say "you want playing time, earn it." Corbin wrings his hands, equivocates and is indecisive.
If he can fix these two things, he'll be Kev's guy. Personally, I think he's got this year to prove it or he's back to being an assistant. Personally, I think he will be gone after this year, and it will have NOTHING, ZERO, NADA to do with wins and losses, but rather about who is best to lead the young team.
Myjazz
Member
This year is all about player development. Right now Corbin's at P3 with a lot of the young guys working and building a camaraderie. It will be interesting to see what kind of coach he is when there's no threat or worry about winning or who should play. He knows the young guys are the future and will play 'em.
The question is, can he bond with these guys and develop them into real NBA players. It doesn't matter how many games they win, if there's real growth and they're developing chemistry. The thought of him ever being fired will be gone. So look for 15-20 more yrs if he can somehow pull it together. If not he's as good as gone.
The question is, can he bond with these guys and develop them into real NBA players. It doesn't matter how many games they win, if there's real growth and they're developing chemistry. The thought of him ever being fired will be gone. So look for 15-20 more yrs if he can somehow pull it together. If not he's as good as gone.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Corbin might not be back in 2014, but it won't be due to NOT making the playoffs: I GUARANTEE IT!
Show me any sportswriter who has picked the Jazz to make the playoffs. And I'm not talking about some blogger. You won't find any. Utah is picked to be the second or third worst in the WC ahead of Phoenix and possibly Sacramento.
Near locks for the playoffs: OKC, SA, Memphis, Houston, LA Clippers, Golden State. It would take major injuries for any of those teams to miss the playoffs.
Fighting for the last two spots: Denver (57 wins last year but lost Iggy and Coach Karl); Portland (greatly improved bench); Dallas (improved their guard line); NOLA (added Jrue, Tyreke and others); Minnesota (healthy Love and Rubio), Lakers (Gasol featured again, able to go up-tempo without Howard, Kobe wants all-time points record in 3 years).
Could surprise: Sacramento. Don't underestimate the effect of FINALLY knowing they'll stay in Sacramento, DCousins being told he's the cornerstone and a much improved PG in Vasquez.
Lottery bound: Phoenix, Utah. These teams are going to be bad. Really bad. Utah has five players of value (we hope), a few scrubs who should, in a normal year, only see garbage time mins but will be "key" subs on this team, and a bunch of D-Leaguers and washed-up vets. There is NO WAY IN UTAH this team wins more than 35 games, even if Kanter, Favors and Hayward play at all-star level. Comparison: Portland last season with Lillard (ROY and all-star numbers), Matthews, Aldridge and Batum. No bench meant 33 wins. I'm predicting more like 25 for Utah. Burke is no Lillard and - outside of Hayward - none of the other "stars" on the Jazz has proven anything against NBA starters.
I love a GM that usea analytics. But that is not the entire story. Public perception starting turning on corbin last year with some of his head scratching decisions. If corbin makes the playoffs with the young guys I and many others will always wonder why they didn't play more. If he loses too many games people will think hes incompetent. Its a tough road. Perception becomes reality.
The Fresh Prince
Well-Known Member
Mens warehouse? The only female I've ever seen work in a warehouse was totally dikin it, homie.
KOC won't fire Corbin because he's not dumb like the fans.
Corbin's in a no win situation with fans who just don't like him for some unexplainable reason. When he had a tight rotation everyone Fire^99 for not playing more guys. When they became competent enough for Ty to play a wider bench, everyone Fire^99 for not running an 8 man rotation.
When Corbin was making tons of defensive p&r adjustments that fans incompetent to recognize, everyone Fire^99 for not making adjustments. Now that it's been reported that he constantly changed the look, it's Fire^99 for changing too much.
The guy can't win with fans. There's no rhyme or reason, but it is what it is. Maybe I'm wrong and KOC will give in to the fans like he belongs in the Bobcats organization & Ty will get the boot.
Corbin's in a no win situation with fans who just don't like him for some unexplainable reason. When he had a tight rotation everyone Fire^99 for not playing more guys. When they became competent enough for Ty to play a wider bench, everyone Fire^99 for not running an 8 man rotation.
When Corbin was making tons of defensive p&r adjustments that fans incompetent to recognize, everyone Fire^99 for not making adjustments. Now that it's been reported that he constantly changed the look, it's Fire^99 for changing too much.
The guy can't win with fans. There's no rhyme or reason, but it is what it is. Maybe I'm wrong and KOC will give in to the fans like he belongs in the Bobcats organization & Ty will get the boot.
Ellipse
Well-Known Member
Hmm, I musta slept through the season you watched. Is it still 2013?
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Sloans shoes were very big. Sorry Ty it's not your fault jazz fans will realise it someday.
LogGrad98
Well-Known Member
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So what do you see in him and how he coaches that proves he is a good coach?
To be fair, the reason Sloan was appreciated by fans so much wasn't because of fan perception, it was because the industry had so damn much respect for him and we fed off those high praises. His 1-4 offense is influencing every team's NBA offense to this day as far as I can tell.
Ty hasn't had the same luxuries Sloan had in two HOFers giving him time to show his brilliance or incompetence. He's had a ****ty, ill conceived group given by management, fitted with players to match the Jazz m.o. of appeasing fans by making the playoffs.. Hello Al Jefferson, hello Maurice, hello Marvin.
Sorry but I'm not qualified to answer this outside sounding like a dumb *** fan. Corbin has given us plenty offensive wrinkles that other teams have not, and that tells me he's at least trying to out coach better competition. That's a hard task and his record speaks for itself.
Watch the "big lineup" play in the video I posted earlier and you'll see a little into what I mean. About the 7:30 mark IIRC.
ramblings
Interesting. My first three points dealt with analytics, my fourth point tied this to player time distribution and coaching decisions: "Corbin must make sound decisions about substitutions, gametime playcalling and other tactical decisions, and player minutes (where his marching orders will be crystal clear)." Oldtimer quotes my first 3 points (omitting the fourth) and says analytics is not the "entire story," also has to do with head scratching decisions player time distribution. To which I scratch my head. : - )
Corbin knows he is toast unless he plays the young guys extensively, and I promise you, Ty and Kev have an understanding about the parameters here (time each player gets). So if you see (hypothetically) that Alec is getting fewer minutes than you wish, it is because Kev has okay'd this move (and don't be surprised if this happens, by the way, I don't think the Jazz feel that Alec is a good Jazz culture fit).
Wins and losses are not important to Ty's Jazz viability in and of themselves. Or, to be more precise, they are only important if the L's are caused by boneheaded head coach game-time decisions. I think the FO feels that Ty has had a reasonable chance to learn during his 1.5 year apprenticeship, and their tolerance will not be high.
And then, Kev will have a tough balance in finding an ideal coach to replace Ty. He wants someone with top intellect (Rivers, Karl, Pop, Hornacek), but also needs someone who can manage NBA egos (Mark Jackson, Spoelstra, Phil Jackson). Some will disagree with me when I say that Ty is very smart, just not elite IQ (flame away). Ty's bigger concern is around ego management, in my opinion.
Interesting. My first three points dealt with analytics, my fourth point tied this to player time distribution and coaching decisions: "Corbin must make sound decisions about substitutions, gametime playcalling and other tactical decisions, and player minutes (where his marching orders will be crystal clear)." Oldtimer quotes my first 3 points (omitting the fourth) and says analytics is not the "entire story," also has to do with head scratching decisions player time distribution. To which I scratch my head. : - )
Corbin knows he is toast unless he plays the young guys extensively, and I promise you, Ty and Kev have an understanding about the parameters here (time each player gets). So if you see (hypothetically) that Alec is getting fewer minutes than you wish, it is because Kev has okay'd this move (and don't be surprised if this happens, by the way, I don't think the Jazz feel that Alec is a good Jazz culture fit).
Wins and losses are not important to Ty's Jazz viability in and of themselves. Or, to be more precise, they are only important if the L's are caused by boneheaded head coach game-time decisions. I think the FO feels that Ty has had a reasonable chance to learn during his 1.5 year apprenticeship, and their tolerance will not be high.
And then, Kev will have a tough balance in finding an ideal coach to replace Ty. He wants someone with top intellect (Rivers, Karl, Pop, Hornacek), but also needs someone who can manage NBA egos (Mark Jackson, Spoelstra, Phil Jackson). Some will disagree with me when I say that Ty is very smart, just not elite IQ (flame away). Ty's bigger concern is around ego management, in my opinion.