Douchebag K
Well-Known Member
Like having a vaccine ?
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Hekate
- Start date
Like having a vaccine ?
I think there's an echo in here.
You know as well as I that vaccines provide more protection than having had the disease, and even more after you have already had the disease.
Avery
Well-Known Member
The good thing is that even with the huge spike we've seen in Utah and other places to Omricon, three clear narratives have emerged:
1. Hospitalizations and deaths have not shot way up indicating that though it's more transmissible, it's not more deadly
2. The vaccines are working as they're helping prevent the above (roughly half the cases are in the vaccinated)
3. Mask mandates are pointless if not enforced - in SLC county, I'd say only 25% of people were wearing masks this weekend with the exception of Costco that were actually providing and requiring masks upon entry).. My personal take is good hygiene and social distancing are more effective mitigation controls
Doesn't mean that it's no big deal that we're having this issue as we clearly are, but continued resiliency against new threats will continue the path towards it simply being endemic and seasonal like the flu itself.
1. Hospitalizations and deaths have not shot way up indicating that though it's more transmissible, it's not more deadly
2. The vaccines are working as they're helping prevent the above (roughly half the cases are in the vaccinated)
3. Mask mandates are pointless if not enforced - in SLC county, I'd say only 25% of people were wearing masks this weekend with the exception of Costco that were actually providing and requiring masks upon entry).. My personal take is good hygiene and social distancing are more effective mitigation controls
Doesn't mean that it's no big deal that we're having this issue as we clearly are, but continued resiliency against new threats will continue the path towards it simply being endemic and seasonal like the flu itself.
Douchebag K
Well-Known Member
there's a lot of evidence that the reverse is actually true Particularly with Omicron
The reverse would be that vaccines make you more susceptible to Omicron. I doubt you meant that, but if you did, where's the proof?
Douchebag K
Well-Known Member
nope that having had Covid delivers a more robust varied and longer lasting immunity. But there are so many variables. Primarily someone's health status being so important to not only the Covid outcome but also to the immune response to a vaccine Zero messaging about these things, just the magic bullet of a vaccine. This is my real gripe that it's a one dimensional solution approach.
There is much more than zero messaging on that issue and the messaging I've seen is that people show much more antibodies from "full vaccination" and a booster shot than from previous infection. I think full vaccination and infection (before or after vaccination) provides very good immunity but the piece I saw on it showed much better immunity with full vaccination and a booster. I can only imagine that full vaccination, booster, and infection is the best immunity a person could have going forward.
But any argument about getting better immunity from infection means that infection is superior to vaccination is absolutely insanely stupid, regardless of infection providing better immunity going forward or not.
Because the vaccine has mild side effects at best and even the "milder" omicron has the potential to kill you, yes you, even as amazing a human specimen as you may be.
Douchebag K
Well-Known Member
lol antibodies yes. The whole immune response though is far more complicated than that. And personally at my age and health status omicron really has incredibly negligible chance of making me even significantly ill. And i've been double vaxxed. However i will not be taking a booster. The vaccine has a few very serious though low percentage occurance side effects mainly with heart inflammation. The risk / reward is not even close to being worth it at this point. However if i was older, overweight, and particularly had any kind of immune disorder, had diabetes, hypertension or insulin resistance scenario i would for sure. If my Vitamin D level was low. There are so many factors. Covid is not a uniform disease.
First, I'm not educated in any field that would allow me to have a meaningful discussion about the complexities of the immune system.
You claimed there was "ZERO" messaging. Where I'm at that is not true. There is messaging. It is not the same as the messaging you allude to, but that certainly is not the same as "ZERO" messaging. That's what my post was meant to address. That and the idea that "natural" immunity is better than vaccinated immunity, which is clearly false, as you, once again, yes YOU, could die while acquiring "natural" immunity. The risk of serious side effects from a booster are several orders of magnitude less significant, but you want to (not so) humble brag about your amazing physical status which you very very falsely (lol vitamin D, that's not a joke, right?) think makes you nearly immune from serious outcomes from a COVID infection. Omicron might not be the end of the road. I wouldn't plan specifically around omicron.
I'm not hating on you, though. I respect your right to make your own healthcare decisions. I don't think there is anything wrong with your approach, I just don't personally agree with the logic that has brought you there.
Douchebag K
Well-Known Member
nobody's bragging mate. It's just the stone cold facts of the matter whether people are unlucky enough to have these health conditions or not. Would you like a link to your CDC's mass study of the incidence of the various comorbidities in bad Covid outcomes ? For instance did you know the presence of someone having an anxiety condition on average gives them a slightly worse outcome if they contract Covid There is where i mean there is little messaging, people with cardiovascular / lipid type health status are so massively overrepresented in bad Covid outcomes it's ridiculous it's not made clear for people to be aware of. And i think you've misunderstood me, yes of course i'm not advocating "hey go get infected so you have better immunity" I would have thought that goes without saying ?? I'm not saying that is better, I am merely considering people who've previously been infected in comparison to those who've been vaccinated. And given my age, vaccination status and health status i absolutely can say my chance of dying from Covid are statistically incredibly miniscule, i don't see how you can think that's false ?? Please don't mistake me for the dumbass redneck 55 year old fat Americans who won't get a vaccine and proclaim they're invincible
Are you aware there are some studies that the risk of a serious effect such as myocarditis can be slightly higher with a booster shot ?? Again so little real concrete information. I've also read a couple of recent studies that show on cardiac MRIs performed on college aged male athletes there is something like a 40% detected of very subtle subclinical myocardiac suggestive changes ? Again so early and so much more information needs to be studied.
And you may want to spend some time looking up Vitamin D levels and effect on Covid outcomes. Bodies internationally that are trying to prepare people for how to have the best outcome when they get Covid emphasise the importance of Vitamin D, C & Zinc levels. It's real and any simple harmless thing you can do to help your health now is worth it.
Thank you for this post!
Of course it may be underplayed that there are advantages to good health when it comes to a COVID infection, it is not completely ignored. I think that in the initial vaccine rollout that started with old and immunocompromised people, then expanded to slightly less old and other people with health conditions that put them at greater risk, etc., made it pretty clear that there were health conditions that made it more likely that bad outcomes were likely. They didn't beat us (in the U.S.) over the head with it, but it was not a secret.
I honestly haven't heard much in depth about myocarditis. I don't know if this is something that actually tips the scales for certain people in regard to the value of the vaccine or just a very insignificant side effect that is insignificant in regard to both getting COVID and the possible outcomes for the individual and spreading COVID from a person who might statistically not be a great risk to many (possibly hundreds) of other people, many of whom might be at very high risk. I don't know much about that aspect of getting the vaccine.
How does one know their vitamin D levels? I used to take a vitamin supplement until In learned that in the majority of studies people who took vitamin supplements had worse outcomes than people who didn't. Many studies over many many decades, studying various supplements and significantly varied control conditions showed that taking supplements was consistently ever so slightly worse for mortality and several other issues vs just not taking them.
I make an effort to eat foods that contain all the nutrition that I need, including all the vitamins. As a non-milk drinker and someone who doesn't get out in the sun a lot that might be one of my weak points.
Douchebag K
Well-Known Member
all good dude, we prob agree on more than it might seem at first. Vit D is assessed with a blood test. Yeah i've been the same with vitamins, this is the first time i've taken some regularly, prob just expensive urine tbh. But i have been prone to low Vit D in the past so i'll take it throughout the duration of the pandemic.
Depends who / what you read as far as myocarditis but for some reason it specifically is overrepresented in younger males. It's played down as being incredibly rare by authorities and passing, they suggest one in about 35,000 and that it's treatable in the majority of cases. But i've seen interviews with young athletes who've had it and still can't run let alone go back to their sport 18 months later. But then again you can get that with Covid so ?/ I've read other reports that say for men aged 18-35 it's one in 2-3000 so yeah that plays into the risk reward thing. Everything is being learned in real time which is fine and good, but i see at least here a lot of misrepresentation that everything is a binary choice of good / bad and i don't see it's that simple I think my beef is really with the deliberate misrepresentations of governments and others on a lot of aspects of this whole thing.
No peer reviewed studies show a higher risk for myocarditis or pericarditis from a booster compared to COVID. Moderna has a higher risk than Pfizer in young men, but the risk with Moderna pales in comparison to the risk of myo/pericarditis from having COVID.
Yet, even if that were true, being vaccinated improves on that effect.
I've seen plenty of messaging that the vaccine is just the most important facet of our strategy, not the sole one.
I understand even mild covid cases come with a much higher chance of heart inflammation.
Red
Well-Known Member
Covid: Half of Europe to be infected with Omicron within weeks - WHO
Dr Hans Kluge says a "west-to-east tidal wave" of the coronavirus variant is sweeping across the region.
www.bbc.com
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
It is going to be quite amazing if after billions in research using the latest science has to offer, global mobilization efforts not seen since WWII, draconian lockdowns even in "free" nations, if nature says "hold my beer" as Omicron becomes what really ends the pandemic.Covid: Half of Europe to be infected with Omicron within weeks - WHO
Dr Hans Kluge says a "west-to-east tidal wave" of the coronavirus variant is sweeping across the region.
There is no practical way of ending the political exploitation of this pandemic, even if the pandemic becomes a complete falsehood. We can't just shoot political activists or politicians. We have to learn to massively overwhelm their relevance in media and get better politicians.
I state without any equivocation that even Trump was snookered by the media/bureaucracy/fake science exploitation event. Conservatives might be generally ignoramuses lost in an Americanism dreamland, Coolites might be equally lost in a Global dreamland, and the entire discussion just a wagon that's got no wheels.
But the facts are still there to be reckoned with when we care to.
Covid19 was a man-made, political exploitation event deliberately run out on the world by international schemers with the aim to increase government powers, possibly reduce overpopulation a smidgeon, and greatlty enhance fascist fortunes.
As a viral factor, it will not survive three more years anywhere on earth. It does not have the basic factors to become a permanent part of the bioverse.
It has been known from the outset that anti-viral agents of many kinds can reduce its effects, and our authorities have fought against their deployment. Fauci knew from day one that it came from the research he oversaw. Xi knew from day one it came from American labs in the first place and was transported to Wuhan for deployment.
The rapid variant succession will mean various types of immunity will proliferate accordingly, and, importantly, the less severe effects of many of these will confer immunity at some level for various types of immunity factors will become widespread and limit the impact of the more severe variant types. And since there is no anticipated (or known) natural reservoir for any of these in nature, this virus will become extinct.
At this point, it might become a "thing" for people to have "Omicron Parties" with hopefully just a tinge of common sense, like don't go if you have comorbidity issues, where someone having Omicron can just happily spread it to all his friends. Not recommending Omni parties here, just sayin'. It could be as good as a vaccination of any kind we have.
Therefore, I think the real pandemic is gonna just die the death it deserves.
Not sure that will affect the scare mongering politicians/activists/authorities.
And, for the mods who surely will face charges that this is disinformation, it's not. It's a logical schema that depends on the possible validity of the assumed "facts" in view. The belief that anyone wanted this to happen derives from the political fortunes, and financial fortunes of undeniably interested parties in our political environment. Such as Bill Gates with his investment outlays and his belief that overpopulation is the overwhelming issue we need to address geopolitically. And Fauci with his relationship to Gates via stock holding in Moderna. I've heard one report from a person who presented credible context, that Gates and Fauci met in Washington State in 2017 and agreed to cooperate on getting global vaccination passports in place by 2020. No way to verify such a thing, unless we had the political will and political muscle/establishment5 support to do a real grand jury investigation of whatever evidence there is on the subject. Otherwise, it's unprovable and easily dismissed as some damn conspiracy theory even though there is a lot public information on these people that adds up to a credible belief that they would want such a development worked towards.
The evidence is out that Fauci had the knowledge of the route and destination of the research funds for the Wuhan lab to do this. We don't yet have proof of material viral transfers from American labs to Wuhan, but the fact is known, and can be researched, that we have been doing such research with such viral materials for decades.
All in all, the Tea Party movement triggered the supposedly gradualist Fabian global fascists to get dangerously alarmed at losing power, so they went too fast on all this, and have set off a public reaction that will mean the end, the full end, of their political development, the complete loss of their power politically and financially.
Not sure what will be next, but it has to be a global development with a lot of central authority, just maybe not so corrupt.
The fact that prominent Democrats and media retailers went ape on Trump for the first travel ban on people from Wuhan, and a lot of crazy stuff like Pelosi making a show of going to China town while Fauci was saying masks don't work, not to mention the orders to send Covid positive infectives into elder care facilities, and orders to cut down mass transit which forces people packing into the fewer cars....... a whole lot of stupid almost compels the rational person to belief intent to politically exploit the pandemic. Just to ditch Trump? Yah gotta be nuts, right?
The prospect that Covid is gonna finish off quickly relies on the high infectivity and low impact of Omicron, together with the many immunological consequences of a very robust immunity that it could spread. Further variants are still possible, but likely will be more like Omicron than the released virus set loose oh maybe August to November 2019. mild upper respiratory infections, less concerning that ordinary flu.
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Why do you need to give me a hot tip? How is it being entitled if you do not have COVID vaccine? I know that crime rate in Australia is kind of low, but isn't it a waste of police resources to chase Djokovic instead of potential drug dealers, gang members etc etc.
Of course i know that last 2 years have been a hell for australian citizens and in Estonia the restrictions have been much milder but still IMHO overblown on some stuff. However, it is just another example of the phenomen "elections have consequences".
It is not like some kind of aliens have enforced those restrictions - it is your own fellow countrymen. Like in Europe.
The politician which got my vote in 2019 parliament elections was in the government 2019-2020; since 2021 his party has been in opposition. Sadly, his rhetoric has gone worse (to snatch some extra votes in future).
For me it is more like trust issue; i am pretty sure when planning travel to whichever country i try to chose those which are accessible by car because even in Europe the government decide something on day 1 and then something else on day 2.
For example, should Japan (the country i would really like to visit again) ease all the restrictions tomorrow i would probably wait at least 6 months to buy any tickets and probably the travel itself would be quite nervewrecking compared to 2019 May, when i also visited Japan.
I just find it sad, that even the government officials in Australia are trying to be in the same level as those in the worst period of Soviet Union, communist eastern-bloc or China i.e finding artificial stuff to blame somebody what he/she has not done.
sums it all up nicely