Coronavirus

[Miggs]

Washington Post. No paywall…Long Covid will be one of the lasting, and devastating, legacies of this pandemic.

The world is moving on from the pandemic. Not so for these Covid long-haulers:

https://wapo.st/3AYiYzW

In many countries around the world, the hope is that the worst of the coronavirus pandemic is over. People have stripped off their masks. Quarantine rules are vanishing.

But three years in, there is still no standard test or treatment for post-covid conditions. Millions suffer from unexplained symptoms that many fear will far outlast the pandemic: unrelenting fatigue, memory loss, chest pain, diarrhea and boomeranging heart rates.

Data collected in June by the U.S. Census Bureau and analyzed by the National Center for Health Statistics showed that nearly one in five Americans who developed covid-19 still have long covid symptoms.

“Globally, no one understands what’s going on,” said Laurent Uzan, a French sports cardiologist who treats younger people with long covid. “We don’t give people a miracle cure. It’s a real war for them, daily.”

To understand how people around the world are coping, we invited readers to share their experiences with long covid, which the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention defines as a chronic condition in which symptoms appear for at least four weeks after the initial infection.

Nearly 400 people from the District to the Philippines told us how long covid has impacted their lives. We heard from a nurse who said he was fired when he could no longer work, a single mother of five who struggles to sleep, a former drill sergeant with tremors and many others. Each person experienced a unique kind of suffering, but their stories shared common themes of isolation, fear and feeling left behind by health systems, employers and friends.

Here are five stories from survivors with whom we spoke over several months. These interviews have been condensed and edited for clarity, and in some cases translated into English.

Yeah, so both of my stepparents seem to have had issues arise from long haul Covid effects.

My stepmom had a weird episode on Christmas. Basically passed out, was unresponsive. Maybe a stroke. Doctors don’t know. They ran all these tests on her heart. See if **** wasn’t firing properly. Nothing was conclusive. Mind you, she’s 64, in amazing shape (probably 5’4”, 120 pounds) and is a pescatarian. Just overall great shape and insanely active—30-40 mile bike rides, like that. My stepdad a couple weeks ago had a heart attack. Not The Godfather collapsing type, just chest pain, went to the ER, and that’s what they told him. I guess that could just be the issue. He had 99% blockage in one artery and 90% in the other…had one stent put in and getting the other one soon so I suppose that’s not long haul effects. It just seemed odd at the time because he’s also quite active and skinny. So strong. At age 65 or so he did an 8 mile Spartan race and was able to climb the rope to the top which is about 25 feet I guess. I honestly think he could do it in six years once he hits 80. Just a very strong dude too.

 

[JazzGal]

The COVID deniers in my family are the ones that seem to have long-term issues. Karma? My brother has been getting terrible stabbing headaches ever since he had COVID. His wife now has shortness of breath issues that she didn't have before. My aunt has terrible fatigue and memory issues that came on right after having COVID.

Yet they still believe that COVID wasn't that big a deal and the doctors and government lied about people's cause of death. And masks don't work. And MAGA.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I didnt really think I had long term effects from the covid I am almost postive I got when I visited USA about a year ago. But I have shortness of breath, my memory has been really ****** lately, have had migraines that I never had before, and worst of all I have become a lightweight when drinking. Now I am pretty sure all of this started around that time I was only sick for about 3 days but it was all the symptoms and I was fairly sick. I was vaccinated well before then with both the Chinese vaccine and J&J which I had no issues with.

 

[The Thriller]

The COVID deniers in my family are the ones that seem to have long-term issues. Karma? My brother has been getting terrible stabbing headaches ever since he had COVID. His wife now has shortness of breath issues that she didn't have before. My aunt has terrible fatigue and memory issues that came on right after having COVID.

Yet they still believe that COVID wasn't that big a deal and the doctors and government lied about people's cause of death. And masks don't work. And MAGA.

Sadly, there's just no reasoning with MAGA. It's been that way with my extended family as well. It doesn't matter the issue, Russian meddling, Qanon, 2020 election, Covid, etc. No amount of evidence or proof is enough to shake their feelings that (1 Trump is Great (2 Doctors, media, establishment, expertise, etc are wrong, evil, and out to get "them." On a personal level, it has a very religious undertone to it. A toxic mix of martyrdom, Mormonism (it just "feels" right and how dare you question my feelings!), and Skousen/Benson John Birch Society like conspiracy.

 

[The Thriller]

Our health care system sucks so bad. Worst delivery method of the entire industrialized world. You can’t treat health care as a commodity. It’s not like selling popcorn. If people can’t afford care, they die. It’s utterly insane how we let big pharma and the insurance industry decide our health care.

But hey, I guess it keeps rich people super rich.


View: https://twitter.com/johngreen/status/1567578183683162116?s=46&t=SVWcG5vPEGVux9r0DM0I4A

 

[LogGrad98]

Our health care system sucks so bad. Worst delivery method of the entire industrialized world. You can’t treat health care as a commodity. It’s not like selling popcorn. If people can’t afford care, they die. It’s utterly insane how we let big pharma and the insurance industry decide our health care.

But hey, I guess it keeps rich people super rich.


View: https://twitter.com/johngreen/status/1567578183683162116?s=46&t=SVWcG5vPEGVux9r0DM0I4A

Just doing our part to solve overpopulation. One disadvantaged American at a time.

 

[Red]

Our health care system sucks so bad.

I guess this won’t help:

Religion and Samuel Alito’s time bomb

There is today a serious danger to religious liberty. But it is coming from the Supreme Court, which has been construing it to mean a right to hurt people.

thehill.com

An irresponsible sentence that Justice Samuel Alito wrote eight years ago may now excuse religious people from nearly every legal obligation they have, so long as a hypothetical, nonexistent government program could substitute for it.

That became clear this week when Judge Reed O’Connor declared in Braidwood Management v. Becerra that employers with religious objections may offer health plans without drugs that prevent transmission of HIV, contraception, the HPV vaccine and screenings and behavioral counseling for STDs and drug use. The employers claim that providing such coverage makes them complicit in homosexual behavior, drug use and sexual activity outside of marriage….

….Ginsburg was right that there is no stopping point. Perhaps emergency rooms in religious hospitals can turn away women hemorrhaging from failed pregnancies, because government could always build emergency rooms of its own.

…..There is today a serious danger to religious liberty. But it is coming from the Supreme Court, which has been construing it to mean a right to hurt people. If this is now its authoritative meaning, then the longstanding, broad consensus that supported it will collapse.

 

[The Thriller]

I guess this won’t help:

Religion and Samuel Alito’s time bomb

There is today a serious danger to religious liberty. But it is coming from the Supreme Court, which has been construing it to mean a right to hurt people.

thehill.com

An irresponsible sentence that Justice Samuel Alito wrote eight years ago may now excuse religious people from nearly every legal obligation they have, so long as a hypothetical, nonexistent government program could substitute for it.

That became clear this week when Judge Reed O’Connor declared in Braidwood Management v. Becerra that employers with religious objections may offer health plans without drugs that prevent transmission of HIV, contraception, the HPV vaccine and screenings and behavioral counseling for STDs and drug use. The employers claim that providing such coverage makes them complicit in homosexual behavior, drug use and sexual activity outside of marriage….

….Ginsburg was right that there is no stopping point. Perhaps emergency rooms in religious hospitals can turn away women hemorrhaging from failed pregnancies, because government could always build emergency rooms of its own.

…..There is today a serious danger to religious liberty. But it is coming from the Supreme Court, which has been construing it to mean a right to hurt people. If this is now its authoritative meaning, then the longstanding, broad consensus that supported it will collapse.

This angers me so much. But this is what conservatives wanted, right? They hated that rules were now applying to them just like everyone else. So for decades now they've organized groups (like the Federalist Society) and have stacked the courts in such a way that only a small group of privileged people belonging to extremist religions are exempt from the responsibilities of living in our society. They benefit greatly from the infrastructure and safety of 21st century America but don't have any responsibility.

 

[The Thriller]

Just doing our part to solve overpopulation. One disadvantaged American at a time.

Sadly, you're right. I think that's the main reason why this *********** is permitted. The most privileged have the health care they need while the most vulnerable have no one to advocate for them.

I'm old enough to remember the fight over the ACA. Many of my friends and classmates at the time came from middle class and upper middle class backgrounds. They had health insurance and many hadn't been denied coverage over pre-existing conditions. They argued that the "free market" would be the solution for "lazy" people with health care problems and those who were unable to pay for insurance.

Although I think education is better now and people understand better the fallacy of "only the poor" can't obtain health care, far too many still don't understand the stupidity of treating health care like a commodity. Is it because we're such a big nation and don't understand how other nations deliver health care? Is it because of our fear that conflates single payer health care with "government owned health care (which still produces better results than our current system)? Is it because of our protestant background that focuses too much on hyper-individualism? As we're seeing right now, only caring about yourself is leading to horrible outcomes for everyone.

Why do Americans put up with such a backwards system where those who need health care the most, can't get it and/or are saddled with mountains of debt?

 

[LogGrad98]

Sadly, you're right. I think that's the main reason why this *********** is permitted. The most privileged have the health care they need while the most vulnerable have no one to advocate for them.

I'm old enough to remember the fight over the ACA. Many of my friends and classmates at the time came from middle class and upper middle class backgrounds. They had health insurance and many hadn't been denied coverage over pre-existing conditions. They argued that the "free market" would be the solution for "lazy" people with health care problems and those who were unable to pay for insurance.

Although I think education is better now and people understand better the fallacy of "only the poor" can't obtain health care, far too many still don't understand the stupidity of treating health care like a commodity. Is it because we're such a big nation and don't understand how other nations deliver health care? Is it because of our fear that conflates single payer health care with "government owned health care (which still produces better results than our current system)? Is it because of our protestant background that focuses too much on hyper-individualism? As we're seeing right now, only caring about yourself is leading to horrible outcomes for everyone.

Why do Americans put up with such a backwards system where those who need health care the most, can't get it and/or are saddled with mountains of debt?

Too much money flowing to the for-profit hospitals and to the politicians to effect any change. It will take a monumental effort to ever change the current system. Maybe something like Cuban's pharmacy that negotiates lower prices will help but only if it can achieve some scale. But without something shaking it up the status quo will just continue because those who can affect change are the ones profiting the most from the current system.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Our health care system sucks so bad. Worst delivery method of the entire industrialized world. You can’t treat health care as a commodity. It’s not like selling popcorn. If people can’t afford care, they die. It’s utterly insane how we let big pharma and the insurance industry decide our health care.

But hey, I guess it keeps rich people super rich.


View: https://twitter.com/johngreen/status/1567578183683162116?s=46&t=SVWcG5vPEGVux9r0DM0I4A

China is definitely offers worse medical care/service than USA by almost all standards. With the big difference being that China's healthcare is affordable and accessible by everyone, no one is worried about financial ramification of getting medical treatment. The setup there is crazy efficient, but a mad house at the hospital.

 

[Rubashov]

Our health care system sucks so bad. Worst delivery method of the entire industrialized world. You can’t treat health care as a commodity. It’s not like selling popcorn. If people can’t afford care, they die. It’s utterly insane how we let big pharma and the insurance industry decide our health care.

But hey, I guess it keeps rich people super rich.


View: https://twitter.com/johngreen/status/1567578183683162116?s=46&t=SVWcG5vPEGVux9r0DM0I4A

I bet that would look really interesting if you started breaking it down by demographics, post codes, red and blue states, gun laws etc...

There is no doubt that the biggest health failure in the US is systemic but i think a fair bit of it is food culture, poverty and lack of gun control too.

 

[LogGrad98]

Too much money flowing to the for-profit hospitals and to the politicians to effect any change. It will take a monumental effort to ever change the current system. Maybe something like Cuban's pharmacy that negotiates lower prices will help but only if it can achieve some scale. But without something shaking it up the status quo will just continue because those who can affect change are the ones profiting the most from the current system.

Speaking of pharmacies, this is a fun little wrinkle in my current health care plan (if you can even call it that, but I digress). Our prescriptions are considered part of our deductible, which is, fortunately, only $1500 individual and $4500 family (pretty damn sad that this is considered a "good" deductible, but I digress yet again). But when I go to the pharmacy I pay the full amount of the name brand drug because THAT IS ALL THE INSURANCE WILL CONSIDER AS PART OF THE DEDUCTIBLE. Yep, if I get generic gabapentin for my chronic nerve issues, then it costs me about $70, but it does NOT count toward my deductible. If I pay the $250-ish for the name brand, then it counts toward my deductible. Yeah, sure, we have an extra $1200 per month to pay for all name-brand drugs every month, yeah, doesn't everyone?

So we use GoodRX. If you haven't heard of this, go get the app right now. We can use it to get discounts on our drugs, even on name-brand, that we then submit as a receipt to my insurance and THEN it can count against the deductible. The kicker is, we have to tell our pharmacy to not run anything through the insurance because as soon as they do they make a ruling whether it counts or not regardless of how you settle up at the end. Run a generic through and NOPE, it doesn't count. End up with the name brand and paying full price after finding that out, well, TOO BAD, since it already ran as generic it still DOESN'T COUNT. Luckily with GoodRX the gabapentin cost me about $17, so not a huge loss, but still. How is this even legal? Oh I forgot, if it makes someone rich, it is bound to be legal and/or ignored by the courts and anyone in power, regardless of who it hurts.

Just completely **** american health care all the way to whatever unimaginable hell you care to picture.

 

[LogGrad98]

China is definitely offers worse medical care/service than USA by almost all standards. With the big difference being that China's healthcare is affordable and accessible by everyone, no one is worried about financial ramification of getting medical treatment. The setup there is crazy efficient, but a mad house at the hospital.

Question on this, is it so much worse that it completely offsets the benefits of availability and affordability? Are you straight up scared to go to the doctor so it is avoided at all costs, or is it more of a nuisance thing?

 

[LogGrad98]

Our health care system sucks so bad. Worst delivery method of the entire industrialized world. You can’t treat health care as a commodity. It’s not like selling popcorn. If people can’t afford care, they die. It’s utterly insane how we let big pharma and the insurance industry decide our health care.

But hey, I guess it keeps rich people super rich.


View: https://twitter.com/johngreen/status/1567578183683162116?s=46&t=SVWcG5vPEGVux9r0DM0I4A

To me the ones paying the bigger price are the lower-middle and middle-class who get hit for the highest expenses but cannot qualify for aid like medicaid. One of my kids qualifies for medicaid and he has a reasonably ok time going to the doctor with his kid. My daugher and son-in-law get the full brunt of the cost of the medical system with no extra help and no good way to pay for it. She is pregnant now (grand-baby #2!) and they are struggling to pay for everything with deductibles and all, and he is a recent college grad with a good job and she is working part-time while finishing school. At about $80k per year, they are having a much harder time with the expenses generated by our broken medical system than my son who is struggling to get on his feet but has some public assistance. That is where the burden is greatest. Especially for those single moms-type people, with kids, working multiple jobs and making just enough money to get out of the poverty level and into the level that is leaned on to pay for all this ****, hugely disproportionate to their actual income. Or you might say, bigly disproportionate.

 

[The Thriller]

China is definitely offers worse medical care/service than USA by almost all standards. With the big difference being that China's healthcare is affordable and accessible by everyone, no one is worried about financial ramification of getting medical treatment. The setup there is crazy efficient, but a mad house at the hospital.

In addition to what LG just said, China has a lot higher population and up until the mid/late 1970s, wasn't really a participant in the global economy.

So what's our excuse for such a crappy HC system?

 

[LogGrad98]

In addition to what LG just said, China has a lot higher population and up until the mid/late 1970s, wasn't really a participant in the global economy.

So what's our excuse for such a crappy HC system?

Money.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Question on this, is it so much worse that it completely offsets the benefits of availability and affordability? Are you straight up scared to go to the doctor so it is avoided at all costs, or is it more of a nuisance thing?

No, it's not so much worse that it's scary or bad. But if you're a reasonable financially secure person in the USA with insurance you would clearly prefer treatment there. The system in China is very different. Their doctors see a crazy high number of patients a day only in their specialty. If you have a standard problem they will know what to do right away and the treatment is solid from there. But if it isn't standard you won't get the time from a doctor to figure it out. They also won't really discuss options with you and a lot of other small things. But they are really good at what they do because they specialize and treat so many people they are experienced. Which if you have less money it is very much worth it. Things like post treatment steps and preventative measures are almost non existent. If you have a heat attack for example they will treat you quickly and efficiently. After surgery you will be told to be healthier and maybe a pamphlet on what to do. They will follow up and at intervals and give you a check. That's it. You won't get help with other things you should be doing. If you have an abnormal heart issue they aren't very patient in figuring that out. If they are unsure and think surgery is a risk you're just told to keep checks regularly and be healthier.

The systems have a plus and minus. But I can obviously see why they would start to have longer lifespans due to it. The ones with lower lifespans are usually the lower even mid class which have better healthcare options in China. Also it factors in that generally speaking Chinese eat a little more healthy and get more exercise especially at the lower class.

 

[Ron Mexico]

In addition to what LG just said, China has a lot higher population and up until the mid/late 1970s, wasn't really a participant in the global economy.

So what's our excuse for such a crappy HC system?

Corporate greed and insurance companies to start with.

China was pretty much the poorest country in the world into the 80s when 90% of their country in extreme poverty. Now that number is less than 1%. A big chunk of that was moving away from communism but still. USA is trending the opposite way since then. GDP keeps growing in the USA but quality of life is declining for the middle and lower classes.

 

[LogGrad98]

No, it's not so much worse that it's scary or bad. But if you're a reasonable financially secure person in the USA with insurance you would clearly prefer treatment there. The system in China is very different. Their doctors see a crazy high number of patients a day only in their specialty. If you have a standard problem they will know what to do right away and the treatment is solid from there. But if it isn't standard you won't get the time from a doctor to figure it out. They also won't really discuss options with you and a lot of other small things. But they are really good at what they do because they specialize and treat so many people they are experienced. Which if you have less money it is very much worth it. Things like post treatment steps and preventative measures are almost non existent. If you have a heat attack for example they will treat you quickly and efficiently. After surgery you will be told to be healthier and maybe a pamphlet on what to do. They will follow up and at intervals and give you a check. That's it. You won't get help with other things you should be doing. If you have an abnormal heart issue they aren't very patient in figuring that out. If they are unsure and think surgery is a risk you're just told to keep checks regularly and be healthier.

The systems have a plus and minus. But I can obviously see why they would start to have longer lifespans due to it. The ones with lower lifespans are usually the lower even mid class which have better healthcare options in China. Also it factors in that generally speaking Chinese eat a little more healthy and get more exercise especially at the lower class.

And a nice tea with some powdered animal penises and horns (yes, the upper and lower horns) never hurts.