Could/will the united states split up?
- Thread starter DutchJazzer
- Start date
Cappy_Smurf
Well-Known Member
Dutch, the concepts that became the foundation of the U.S. constitution were developed in placed like French Salons. There were many bright people discussing the way things ought to be vs the way things were. With the U.S. revolution there was an opportunity for all these intelligent ideas to be put into practice in a grand experiment.
Nowhere did he say the U.S. modeled itself after Europe, but that it was formed based on European notions, or notions that were cultivated in Europe.
Dutch, get out some history books, or google some things.
The American Revolution was directly caused by British-appointed governors and other officials, including the King, who ignored British Law and Common Law principles, denying Americans some of the rights they expected as English citizens.
There was an intellectual development going on in Europe where people were writing books and stuff about human rights and better ways to govern. Most of our founders were reading this fare.
What was unique about America was that we got an organized, civil and lawful alternative government up and going, and somehow against all odds, won the war and negotiated our independence diplomatically to formally achieve recognition among other nations.
The American Revolution was directly caused by British-appointed governors and other officials, including the King, who ignored British Law and Common Law principles, denying Americans some of the rights they expected as English citizens.
There was an intellectual development going on in Europe where people were writing books and stuff about human rights and better ways to govern. Most of our founders were reading this fare.
What was unique about America was that we got an organized, civil and lawful alternative government up and going, and somehow against all odds, won the war and negotiated our independence diplomatically to formally achieve recognition among other nations.
I also feel your screen name is just over the line, really. Well, unless you're a chemist in a lab on the west shore of the Great Salt Lake who is just sort of taking others calling you that in a really obnoxious way, just because they're all such good buddies they know they can joke virtually without limit with one another.
I'd argue that Utah isn't legally a State because the legal proceedings leading up to Statehood were unconstitutional negotiations between a church and the Federal government, and that many of the provisions laid down on Utah were also violations of Federal constitutional requirements. Also, the Federal Government has breached the "contract" with the LDS Church by not complying with the agreed terms. So throw the Utah constitution out the window and start over.
The Civil War compromised many elements of the original intent of the Constitution. I see great evil in many of those aspects. The Federal Government, acting under a legislated program, should have just started buying the slaves from slaveholders, and set them free afterwards. The legal importation of slaves had already ended, and the industrialization of agriculture/ / / farm machinery./// really was making having slaves uneconomical anyway.
The Federal system originally established gave states a lot of latitude for accommodating their unique people and situation, and we should go back to that a lot.
Rather than seeking a fascist world government, as under the UN, with corporate interests having excessive influence, we should extend the original American principles to other nations, and form a larger union of states. Perhaps the most obnoxious idea in the UN governance is that the people only have the rights government "gives" them. We need to insist on people have essential and inviolable human rights that all governments cannot infringe.
Now, that might be overly generous of you, so thanks all the more.
I'm not sure how I really think about such overly-generalized prophecies sometimes. I sorta think a lot of the Book of Revelations might have been directed at the Roman Empire somehow, and that Christians of that era really believed Jesus would come soon and finally put an end to that "world empire", but I try to keep open to things I don't really have enough information to actually know what the words meant to the author. . . .
The Book of Mormon talks about how the "Gentiles", identified as the European Whites, will one day decline and of the "Lamanites" becoming dominant again, to the extent that the only "gentiles" that will remain will be those who identify with the Lamanites. A lot of questions about all that. Really fits with the thinking I've seen in religious folks writing from pre-Texas Revolution days. . . . . And, for most American countries, by which I mean Central and South America, never really even got a "gentile" population. . . .
Definitely, Mormons in the late 1800s were in no frame of mind to think everything was fine in the good ol' USA, and many fervently believed God would humble the nation. And a few imagined they would be the ones to "save the Constitution". As late as the times of President Harold B. Lee and Ezra Taft Benson, there were statements of devout believers and even leaders of the Church about how the LDS would "save the Constitution", an idea that does not neatly fit with either of the other notions I've mentioned, because of the basic question of how is a Church going to do that, or even a large number of patriots.
The US Constitution's most basic requirement is that people select their own representatives who should seek the interests of their electorate. That is not a "top-down" government, nor can it be imposed upon a populace who does itself understand and demand their representation.
The only thing that matters anymore is key districts in key swing states so you're probably right. It would end up a gerrymandering **** hole.
Another reason I vote straight opposite party to balance things out.
This post is incredibly laughable especially considering the apathetic attitude of the populace. We can barely get people to vote in this country much less get them to tackle the issues of secession. And let's not mention once these "fly-by-night" secessionists realize how much money they get from the federal government.
Why is Butchy so concerned with our country? What's his agenda here?