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Dame Time

people should be yelling at the heat. Hero and Robinson are bad contracts and the heat keep thinking they can pawn them off on other teams for first round picks. if anything the heat should have to add assets if Hero or Robison are in the deal.
Portland should involve other teams. tell Dame he is still loved and you want to make him happy, but the trade offer has to make sense. Dame will understand he is better than Hero and Robinson and he will understand their contracts suck. it will eventually work itself out. no need to freak out.
 
oldtimer said:
people should be yelling at the heat. Hero and Robinson are bad contracts and the heat keep thinking they can pawn them off on other teams for first round picks. if anything the heat should have to add assets if Hero or Robison are in the deal.
Portland should involve other teams. tell Dame he is still loved and you want to make him happy, but the trade offer has to make sense. Dame will understand he is better than Hero and Robinson and he will understand their contracts suck. it will eventually work itself out. no need to freak out.
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The thing is, in a vaccum, Herro isn't an awful contract. He's a 25 yo 20/5/5 player who shoots pretty efficiently and has improved his defense. The primary issue is Herro plays a common enough position and Utah doesn't really need (a) Herro uniless we're shipping Sexy and Collins.
 
I'm not a Herro guy and I agree with the anti Herro stuff, but he is definitely better than Clarkson.

He doesn't have the wild self creation ability of Clarkson, but he takes much better shots than Clarkson does and doesn't have trouble getting those shots off.

The argument for getting Herro would be that you can increase his value as he ages and his contract will look decent with how big these deals are getting.

Danny seems to like buying low on these kind of talents.
 
TheStormofWar said:
The thing is, in a vaccum, Herro isn't an awful contract. He's a 25 yo 20/5/5 player who shoots pretty efficiently and has improved his defense. The primary issue is Herro plays a common enough position and Utah doesn't really need (a) Herro uniless we're shipping Sexy and Collins.
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Every indication is Utah is working overtime to ship out Sexton
 
Herro to SA makes some sense.. provide a mix of expirings and just savings with like the Toronto first they have and a couple seconds if more is needed. Portland ends up getting 3 firsts... couple swaps... get out of jail free card on Nurk (and the backend of Dame's deal) and they get Jacquez and Jovic as young prospects.

Its fair... Dame ain't KD and he ain't no spring chicken like Donovan. I doubt a team throws out 4 firsts and takes Nurk's deal for a disgruntled Damian.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The Norm Powell/Covington/Nance deals they did dropped them under the tax and netted them what? Keon Johnson?

They played scared... waiting way to long to do the CJ/Dame breakup... unwilling to move Sharpe or Simons or the 3rd pick. Those are likely the smart moves for the franchise long term... but are playing the middle of the road. They owe like one lotto protected pick but haven't put any other draft capital on the table. Sold off Hart for a pick.
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The Powell and Covington deal cleared the capspace for Grant.

Getting a 1st for Hart was the smart move for a guy that was likely opting out and you lose for nothing.

Tell me a move that they missed out on that could have taken them to legit contender status. I don't remember seeing anything over the years where I was thinking they missed out. Pretty much his entire tenure with the blazers they have always spent a lot of money and made a ton of trades to try and get a championship. These last few years have been a struggle but they went into both seasons intending to compete and it just didn't work out but ended up turning into a best case scenario. I think they got 2 possible superstars that can allow Lillard to compete for titles late into his career. Both guys should be big contributors this season and borderline all star by the next year.
 
sip said:
The Powell and Covington deal cleared the capspace for Grant.

Getting a 1st for Hart was the smart move for a guy that was likely opting out and you lose for nothing.

Tell me a move that they missed out on that could have taken them to legit contender status. I don't remember seeing anything over the years where I was thinking they missed out. Pretty much his entire tenure with the blazers they have always spent a lot of money and made a ton of trades to try and get a championship. These last few years have been a struggle but they went into both seasons intending to compete and it just didn't work out but ended up turning into a best case scenario. I think they got 2 possible superstars that can allow Lillard to compete for titles late into his career. Both guys should be big contributors this season and borderline all star by the next year.
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I mean they traded for Grant so didn't need space to do that. The cap space was helpful but not necessary. They passed up an OG for Sharpe trade supposedly. Naming every hypothetical trade they could have done has no value at all. Its quite simple though... there is a lot they could have done... Olshey wasn't great and Cronin has a pretty limited hand.

I'm just saying it isn't like they emptied the clip to make it work and he's leaving em high and dry... he didn't make them do the Lebron where they go scorched earth then he bails. They were really passive and ended up slowly withering away. Dame ain't perfect but he didn't grumble too much when they shut him down multiple times to tank... he gave them a shot to make a trade and I get why they didn't... it isn't in their best interest... so now Dame gets to do what's in his best interest and work his way to a team that can compete. They may not get the megahaul but they won't get "screwed".

I'm not sure what is even a fair deal in an open market for him. KD got Bridges, Johnson and 4 firsts... but KD is a much better player/star. Is 4 firsts the fair price? If so Miami can get in that ballpark with 2 firsts, 3 swaps, Jaquez, Jovic, assuming Nurk's deal, and getting a first for Herro somewhere.

Like is Brooklyn offering 4 firsts they have and Ben Simmons? Are they going higher than that? Will they assume Nurk?

Is Utah going 4 firsts with Sexton and expirings? They assuming Nurk?

Its just not that much different imo than what teams would give up. 75% of the board would lose their mind if we gave up 4 firsts for Dame. I'm just not sure his market value without the campaign to get to Miami is all that different than what they will end up getting. If Miami is holding out any of their good draft stuff or prospects and are unwilling to take back Nurkic... then I can see them finding a better offer outside of Miami... if not it will be in the same ballpark.
 
Just an FYI - Per Bobby Marks - For those of you saying Dame should have gotten a No Trade Clause... he was never eligible for that because he signed an extension... not a new deal. Had he been a full fledged FA he almost certainly would have gotten one.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I mean they traded for Grant so didn't need space to do that. The cap space was helpful but not necessary. They passed up an OG for Sharpe trade supposedly. Naming every hypothetical trade they could have done has no value at all. Its quite simple though... there is a lot they could have done... Olshey wasn't great and Cronin has a pretty limited hand.

I'm just saying it isn't like they emptied the clip to make it work and he's leaving em high and dry... he didn't make them do the Lebron where they go scorched earth then he bails. They were really passive and ended up slowly withering away. Dame ain't perfect but he didn't grumble too much when they shut him down multiple times to tank... he gave them a shot to make a trade and I get why they didn't... it isn't in their best interest... so now Dame gets to do what's in his best interest and work his way to a team that can compete. They may not get the megahaul but they won't get "screwed".

I'm not sure what is even a fair deal in an open market for him. KD got Bridges, Johnson and 4 firsts... but KD is a much better player/star. Is 4 firsts the fair price? If so Miami can get in that ballpark with 2 firsts, 3 swaps, Jaquez, Jovic, assuming Nurk's deal, and getting a first for Herro somewhere.

Like is Brooklyn offering 4 firsts they have and Ben Simmons? Are they going higher than that? Will they assume Nurk?

Is Utah going 4 firsts with Sexton and expirings? They assuming Nurk?

Its just not that much different imo than what teams would give up. 75% of the board would lose their mind if we gave up 4 firsts for Dame. I'm just not sure his market value without the campaign to get to Miami is all that different than what they will end up getting. If Miami is holding out any of their good draft stuff or prospects and are unwilling to take back Nurkic... then I can see them finding a better offer outside of Miami... if not it will be in the same ballpark.
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The Jazz picks and filler re much better than what Miami can offer. The Jazz don't really have a bad contract now that we have jettisoned Gay. The two worst contracts, that are still pretty good, in THT and Olynyk are both expiring. The really late Jazz picks in 2029 are only good because we have other picks that are coming sooner. Nobody wants to wait 5 years for compensation on a star they are giving up today.
 
framer said:
The Jazz picks and filler re much better than what Miami can offer. The Jazz don't really have a bad contract now that we have jettisoned Gay. The two worst contracts, that are still pretty good, in THT and Olynyk are both expiring. The really late Jazz picks in 2029 are only good because we have other picks that are coming sooner. Nobody wants to wait 5 years for compensation on a star they are giving up today.
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I don't doubt that... now what are we willing to offer? Say Dame said he will go to one of 5 teams and Utah is one of the 5... what is Danny's max offer?

Miami can also put swaps on the other years and there is some value there too. I know "it's Miami... they never suck". Well if they don't have a decent pick for 6 years and have all aging guys with monster contracts... eventually the Max Strus' of the world won't save them. Picks and swaps that far out have value... even if it takes a while to come home. Portland has a decent young talent base to kickoff the rebuild already.
 
This whole situation is something an organization or fanbase dreads. We were probably pretty close to have it twice. If I was an owner, I would have pushed for some sort of help in the new CBA. It's crippling for a non-desired organization.
 
I think one of the biggest mistakes that Portland kept making was the quick trigger to shut things down when faced with adversity in multiple years. It ultimately worked out for them in that they won the lottery in getting Scoot but it does scream that you definitely aren't all in. Good players don't like sitting at home during the playoffs.

That said, if Dame had just said that he had privately submitted a list of teams he would like to go to, even if that list was only Miami, I think everyone would be in a much better place right now
 
Shad said:
This whole situation is something an organization or fanbase dreads. We were probably pretty close to have it twice. If I was an owner, I would have pushed for some sort of help in the new CBA. It's crippling for a non-desired organization.
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I don't get it... when a player asks to be traded the team trading said player typically do really well. The crippling thing is when a player leaves for nothing... KD, Lebron, Gordo (okay one of these things is not like the other but you get it).

When the timeline for a star to ask out usually comes up... most of the time it is better for the franchise to trade that star anyway. Kyrie Irving being an exception... I don't view this as a "problem".
 
I also think Miami is holding back assets to make one more move if they get Lillard. I think if all the stuff we assume is on the table were actually on the table, the deal might actually get done.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I don't get it... when a player asks to be traded the team trading said player typically do really well. The crippling thing is when a player leaves for nothing... KD, Lebron, Gordo (okay one of these things is not like the other but you get it).

When the timeline for a star to ask out usually comes up... most of the time it is better for the franchise to trade that star anyway. Kyrie Irving being an exception... I don't view this as a "problem".
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Do you have any idea how much worse off we'd be if Mitchell demanded to be traded specifically to the Heat and only the Heat?
 
Hollinger and Lowe talking about the best Heat offer is kind of telling.

Hollinger brought up that Miami could amend protections on the 2025-26 pick they owe to OKC and make it unprotected in 2026 (the next great draft) then they can offer 2024, 2028, 2030 themselves plus Jacquez, Jovic and whatever you get for Herro.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I don't get it... when a player asks to be traded the team trading said player typically do really well. The crippling thing is when a player leaves for nothing... KD, Lebron, Gordo (okay one of these things is not like the other but you get it).

When the timeline for a star to ask out usually comes up... most of the time it is better for the franchise to trade that star anyway. Kyrie Irving being an exception... I don't view this as a "problem".
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And almost nobody views Portland taking the best deal they can get for Dame as a "problem" either. It is simple as that. Portland has no responsibility at all to send Dame to Miami, absolutely none. There will be no consequences for them at all should they choose to do so
 
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